"If more membership courses were as modest and as compelling as this, the private club market would be much more secure."

Brad Klein files a story and rater's notebook on yet another Long Island gem, St. George's Golf And Country Club. It surely gets overlooked because it's only 6,232 yards, and that's why golf's in the toilet.

At 6,232 yards, this par-71 layout (70.8 rating/130 slope) is not long or severe. But it is fun, and it does demand ball control. And what a relief to see only three sets of tee markers on each hole. Surely, the proliferation of tees in the name of liberal social values is among the most regrettable in all of golf design.

Comments

[jstiles]

I can sense the compelling part in regards to the course, but with half the budget of St Georges, every private course would be secure.

It looks like a wonderful course, but many other compelling courses are not doing so well.

Location, location, location, and a smidge of compelling would seem to be the ticket.

[vwgolfer]

Sorry---but the proliferation of golf tees in the name of liberal social values......Blah Blah. Regrettably this is the most asinine statement of the year by anyone on any subject in any country on any planet in every universe known to mankind.

[DZinkand]

Highlighting a course such as this provides a welcome spotlight on the under appreciation of lower profile clubs and public layouts that are so highly valued on a local level. We are all familiar with courses further afield we would be happy to have in our own backyard, but won’t get noticed or celebrated like the national and up-scale resort models.

[Tommy Naccarato]

I was at St. George's last month for a play or two and I can say with all due honesty that this course is an incredible joy as much as its an incredible surprise.

Devereux Emmet was brilliant in laying this place out and little has changed with exception to the 11th & 12th holes, and it did nothing really at all to diminish the architecture. Its a roller coaster ride of fun-fun-fun!

Another great jewel about this place is both the superintendent, Adam Jessie and Gil Hanse, both who have literally opened the place up with tree removal and incredible if not meticulous conditioning. Adam is a former Assistant Superintendent to Mark Machaud at Shinnecock Hills, and while playing St. George's, you'll see that he maintains it in much the same manner. He has seemingly worked his ass off to Hanse's masterplan, and it shows. Looking at previous pictures of the place, it was more akin to a over-treed muni course.

Go see St. George's, You won't be disappointed!

[Pete the Luddite]

"...the proliferation of tees in the name of liberal social values is among the most regrettable in all of golf design..."

Is that code for women and youth golf players? That was my first reaction to this idiotic comment. I may be completely off-base, but I'm interested in what my fellow Shack-ians thought the writer meant by that comment.

How would conservative social values play into course design? Too many political jokes come to mind, and I won't go there.

A truly puff piece that seems to be written for a writer in a desperate quest to make it to The New Yorker.

[rose]

Actually Peter, I think Klein finds it regrettable that clubs feel the need to stretch their courses to an excessive degree as part of some type of effort to prove that they are not obsolete when the reality is, most club have no need for tee boxes beyond 6700 yards or so.

[Steven T.]

Another such private course that gets loverlooked because of its proximity to other more highly regarded courses and its lack of length is LuLu(Ross) in suburban Philly. It's another fun,fun, fun course as Tommy N can attest.

[al p]

Sorry, but when I read that it is a private course, I immediately lose interest.
Commoners like myself aren't allowed.

[F. X. Flinn]

Klein's jibe at 5 and 6 tee box courses suggests he thinks such designs were prompted by the same forces that created affirmative action, food stamps, social security and medicare. However, if memory serves, the first use of lots of tee boxes came at Nicklaus' Grand Cayman course, a nifty design that could be played a 9 holes with a regular ball or 18 with a restricted flight ball. Or maybe it was at some 8500 yard Fazioism. In the case of the latter, it appeared to be the only way to make the course enjoyable for a range of skills. Maybe that's Klein's point: there are only 3 skill buckets in golf. And you will fit into one of them -- Master of the Universe, Corporate Drone, or Female/Child/Doddering Old Man -- and like it.

[Pete the Luddite]

Rose-

I understand that point, sure. If that was the writer's point, I think it could have been made much more clearly. I am bothered by the phrase "liberal social values" though as a descriptor for course length. I can't help but have that nagging feeling that there is a quiet swat at others. I will fully admit to being sensitive to this issue, with 2 girl golf players in the house (my 13-year old was our club's first Jr. girl's champion, and I had to wrangle with the club to set up a division for the girls and not have them play against the boys, but that's another story...) :)

It's never a dull day in Shack-Land, and I'm glad for the comment. Thanks.

[GeoffreyC]

I lived across the street from St Georges for years and would trespass sledding down the hills in winter. It was a tree infested narrow gold course on a wonderful piece of land. Adam Jessie transformed it into a mini-NGLA Shinnecock Hills with vistas across the course and incredible variety for thrilling golf. I love the place and having played many Dev Emmet courses and a member of one for over a decade I can honestly state that St Georges is IMO the best preserved representative of his work currently available to view and play. It is a golf course with a chance for a wide variance in scores. You expect to score well and it is open to this possibility but often you will blow up to higher numbers then you expect. I like golf like that. Kudos to Klein and Golfweek for highlighting such places.

[tlavin]

I'll agree with Brad on the five tee marker issue in one sense and that is in the visual sense of looking at all of those tee boxes and all of those tee markers. It's occasionally jarring to see, but the truth is that the five sets of tee markers has been a godsend to the game. It allows the older, younger and less skilled players a place to play from. Not every club can be like St. George's which looks like a delightful place to play, but most clubs whether public or private ought to do their best to be customer friendly. Multiple tees is definitely good for the golf consumer.

[CharlieG]

More tees are a wierd thing. It's hard to call them bad...or good for that matter. Ideally you'd see another set of tees added for another caliber of player only when the hole is more interesting/enjoyable for that caliber of player from that tee. However, going by most courses built nowadays, EITHER none of the holes are as or more enjoyable for a kid (for instance) from the middle tees as from the front tees OR it's just easier to carry through the theme of 5 tees regardless of how enjoyable each hole is for each player from each set of tees.

I can't make comment on Mr. Klein's frame of reference or frame of mind with his "liberal" comment though. But it does seem to be an incorrect usage of the word.

[Tommy Naccarato]

I completely agree with Brad's premise and sorry that the one's that don't understand that this is a brave new world when it comes to golf courses both private and public. Things need to change as far as maintenance and certainly, St.G's is a perfect example.

The use of multiple tees has always confused me from every angle, as well as the saying that every golfer should play from the right set of tees. A golf course should be playable from every set of tees, where the fun never stops and neither does the challenge.

-A QUESTION: How many of you can admit or will admit that they have played a GREAT course from ever set of tees?

I have been fortunate to play one, just one, where I have played from EVERY set, and it still challenged and was a blast! Isn't that what the Sport is all about? I'm also fortunate that I work with teaching kids how to play the sport and play regularly with the kids from the reds (no liberal pun intended!) and it is more then fulfilling and has taught me things about architecture I had fully failed to realize--this on a course with five sets of tees and the course is just a shambles--horrible architecture. (Hidden Valley Golf Club in Norco, California)

The addition of multiple tees is NOT economic and certainly, does little to enhance GREAT architecture, but more, highlights an era of waste simply on the courses that need multiple tees for the ill-placement of hazards, and proves that architects are designing from a penal, and not strategic nature. (IMHO)

And yes, Lu Lu for me is a LULU! (another great course that resides in the background of a rather great stage--of golf courses)

Great review by Dr. Klein. Spot on!

[digsouth]

While I normally play @ 62-6700 with about 7000 every now and then, Lions Muni here in Austin is a 6000 yard gem,tight, with common bermuda and the most grain of any greens in America. It is loved and about 2 minutes from the Captol buildiing. Size really does not matter......

As to the number of tee boxes.....a non issue for me, but both sides of the thought have points.

A fave practive round is to play 2, from the back and the front, or the reds and try to drive to the same club in on the p4's.

[Steve]

Instead of having 4,5,6+ sets of tees, more courses should use composite tees to create different yardages. I see too many courses with tees at 5200, 5800. 6200. 6700, 7100. All they really need is the 5200, 6200 and 7100 yard tees and then by using combos (say the par 5's from the 7100 and par 4's from the 6200 and a combo of both on the par 3's) can make a nice set of tees at about 6700. The same can be done using a combo of tees from teh 5200 and 6200 to make a 5800 yard set.

It requires less maintenace and improves pace of play, as even when people are playing different "tees" in a group, they may be hitting from the same spot on a number of holes.

[jstiles]

Things need to change for golf to not shrink.

While the course, the work, the challenge of St Georges is all you might want, there is a price.

The St Georges model will work, as it obviously has so well, but at what price.

It is something few privates can attain. Mainly because of the money.

While I understand multiple tees are something poorly done in many cases, and probably should not be necessary. In today's world of senior play, women's play, and high school/college kids hitting it 300 yards, multiple tees are needed for the members. Hopefully tees would be done in the manner as Steve mentions above, versus an actual tee for each yardage. You need something to keep ALL members at almost all private courses. The key word being almost, as in the vast majority.

St Georges might be the ideal goal, which many more could achieve if the money was there.

It does seem to be a model for the very well funded courses with excellent architectural bones, plus a few members and super with the enthusiam and brains.

[DZinkand]

Accommodating shorter players and beginners only makes sense. But, maybe a social value will evolve that helps us drop one of the tees further back. Most everybody could afford to move up a set of markers anyways.