The Lakes Before And After, 8th Hole

To get some idea of the transformation of The Lakes, home to this week's Australian Open, here is a before-after shot of the 8th hole courtesy of architect Mike Clayton and his firm.

Comments

[CJ]

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

[Lefty]

And Norman couldn't figure out this was better?

[Ky Laffoon's Ghost]

Ditto times two.

[Tommy Naccarato]

Norman was right.

This place deserves narrow fairways, decomposed granite and no strategy just like he has gifted us with PGA West.

Beautiful stuff Mike!

[Old Hornet]

Did players wear bowling shoes before Mike's restoration ?

[Del the Funk]

I can't believe they just yanked out all those cart paths....those paths looked like perfectly good cart paths, and wide!

[Michael B]

Personally I like the "Before" better than the after:

1) Hole looks more intimidating from the tee. Tightness would definitely play a mental factor when standing over the ball on the tee.

2) Looks more natural rather than manicured

3) All the shrubs and growth down the left side of the hole separates it from the hole next to it making it more secluded.

Of course everything that I am saying is based only on the pictures, and my opinion may change if I were to actually see the course at some time.

Just my 2 cents.
Happy Holidays to all!

[Tommy Naccarato]

Michael B, Stop it! your killing me with the comedy!

[Taylor Anderson]

Michael, there is no such thing as a wrong opinion as we each have our own likes and dislikes.

The before might look more intimidating and is probably a "harder" hole. I don't personally equate hard with good - the before looks like a lost ball haven. I don't think that's golf.

It's curious that you think before looks more natural - personally, the after looks more natural and far less manicured. Look at the tee boxes in the before and after as one example.

Your third point is more fact than opinion. I personally don't find "secluded" holes to automatically be better or worse holes. The before looks like a very boring golf hole with a defined route. The second looks like an interesting hole with multiple routes.

Like you, I'm making a judgment based on a single photo - but it certainly appears that the after is much more interesting and cerebral than the before.

[digsouth]

Del, that's not a cart path, that's a GN heliport.

[chico]

I personally like the new version very much better-looks wonderful to me.Enough trouble to make you wary but bale-outs if you need them.
Curiosly my own courses fall a bit into the 'former' category.They are heathland courses but also heavily surrounded by silver birch and Scots pine and one of the most common comments about us is " isnt it wonderful how even when the course is busy you feel as if you are on your own private course".
Dont see our committee ever sanctioning such a restoration but that must have been how we looked 100 years ago before the trees grew up.

[Old Hornet]

Chico - As I recall Lochgreen had a little mixture of both, and the course was fun to play too.

[gordon langseth]

just shows once again, why Norman is one of the worst designers currently "working". Most times I think his work is at best suited for a low budget muni

[Brackish]

I think 9 out of 10 of us are going to like the after better than the before... and I think we should. However this term "natural" is one of the worst words that can be used in golf course architecture. If someone with some knowledge of how courses are built looked at the two pictures, they could easily say the first looked more "natural", because it is extremely obvious that much more machine time and work went into creating the new hole. The first hole borders on them cutting the trees down, carving out a couple of saucers for bunkers, making a green and some tees and calling it a day. The new hole required much much more than that to create the "look" they were going for. Does it look more natural? sure to an uneducated golf course critic, because they have come to see natural as rough edged bunkers with long grass dotted around them, and random landforms that speak of links courses etc. However, when that look is created from nothing but a flat piece of land, it can hardly be called natural. I think most of us much much prefer the new hole, and I would love to play it, whereas the old hole didn't do much for me, but I think it would be much more accurate to just say "the new hole looks better, cooler, more interesting, in style, trendy, fun, etc, than to say it looks more natural.

[Press Agent]

I think it's important to remember that Greg Norman is almost never going to say what he believes, or even knows, he is going to say what is designed to try and promote him, his companies, his style, his brand, his ego. This characteristic of his personality seems to have reached epic proportions in the last decade or so. I've never heard him say a kind word about anybody else's work, except maybe fat Jack.

[Laura Andrassy]

"And Norman couldn't figure out this was better?"

Greg has a hard time figuring out which is better in life.

[Don Gesualdo]

Before view: one choice.
After view: several interesting choices.

My vote: Freedom of choice.

Before view: lead blanket, claustrophobic and constricting
After view: a mental "phew!" challenging, welcome sense of shot anticipation

Nice job, Mike Clayton and staff.

[Grover]

"Greg Norman of course carries the weightiest (but not necessarily the most worthwhile) opinion because he is Greg Norman..." - Clayton
http://www.backpagelead.com.au/golf/3225-why-i-renovated-the-lakes-

Shame both Australia and New Zealand (Bob Charles) have to put up with that pesky "weightiest (but not necessarily most worthwhile)" problem.

[The O]

Apparently, the Kiwis decided to shell this hole with mortars in a failed invasion.

[Marky Mark]

Now that we are finding out how Norman's brain functions, we are begining to understand how he was able to blow so many chances at majors.

Mr. "Saturday Slam"

[lawrence donegan]

Clayton
yr a bloody disgrace, mate. yr giving people too many options, making them think too much. I want the golf course to tell me where to hit my shots and, with a bit of luck , give me a chance to lose a few balls in the undergrowth..

maybe Greg Norman could re-do your re-do - turn it into something magnificent and memorable, like the Earth course at the Jumeirah estates in Dubai...

lawrence donegan


PS. and what's with all the scenic beauty? Baaahh...

[Michael]

Greg Norman was fine with it. He has good memories due to his tournament being there previously and has had some stellar rounds. I was in the media conference and his comments have been taken out of context a bit. He was not scathing of it at all:

"I remember The Lakes of old. I have really fond memories of The Lakes of old. I am a little biased because I like the way The Lakes played before. I have only played around here one time. It is a totally different looking golf course. Playability-wise, it looks like it would play a little easier for the pros and harder for the members."

If I played well on a course that was then renovated, I'd say the same thing. Sometimes he gets abad rap and sometimes he deserves it. Not on this one.

[Joey]

Less trees, better golf, says the golfer named Lumberjack.

[Longy]

Can't wait to see what Norman does with the third Barnbougle course.

[Elle Gee]

The last time Norman ( Australia's intellectual equivalent of David Beckham) had this many options Chrissie Evert was standing in front of him in the buff.

Changes look great

LG

[Smolmania]

Love the tee markers, esp. the smaller one with the big dent in it. If I did't know better, I'd think I had played there. . .

[Michael Ringland]

The Lakes is my home course, and the feeling among fellow Lakes members is Its more challenging. The "new" greens require better approach angles, I personally don't like their excessive contours, many have landed on the left half of the 14th green only to see their efforts crushed by the ball rolling 30 feet around a contour line and back into the water, a little thicker grass is on the waters edge now but "thats golf...get over it" was Mr Claytons opinion of that. I loved the trees, but then I love the new demands, it remains a pity that we lost the 13th hole and 15 has no water hazard in play any more, Mr Clayton is not my friend, but I have to admit it looks great on TV, wait for the wind to blow though, its a different course then.