USGA To Re-Open Discussions About Rule On Scorecard DQ's

Saturday

Jan222011

First we learned the R&A is open to revisiting the scenario of disqualifications for signing incorrect cards that, at the time players signed them were not incorrect. Now, Mike Davis, Senior Director of Rules and Competitions, confirms to the USGA is "absolutely going to reopen" discussions with the R&A. The Padraig Harrington situation was the final straw.

"We're all bothered by what is a narrow set of circumstances where someone can get the facts right and still be disqualified. In Harrington's situation, he thought ball was replaced and only television is telling us otherwise. He knew the rules, he thought he did everything right, he just didn't know all the facts. So the USGA and R&A will open it up again, but we also have to make sure we don't do something that has domino effect."

Davis was speaking after just returning from R&A meetings in St. Andrews and said emails have already been exchanged between the USGA and R&A on ways to remedy the rule without creating unintended consequences, such as allowing players off the hook for not knowing the rules. Which was not the case in the Harrington scenario.

Saturday, January 22, 2011 at 12:30 PM

33 Comments | in

2011 PGA Tour,

Rules

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Reader Comments (33)

There's more furor about this, than getting out of Afghanistan.

01.22.2011 |

Connie

Sponsors (TV and the like) are starting to address the governing bodies with threats of adios MF, if you people cannot create a reasonable common sense set of rules, so that we can advertise your product ( the Golf Tournament) with some assurance that the draws are going to be playing, given them making the cut, and not committing some breach of a rule that actually has an effect on the playing of the game.

Hell, the Ocho may kick in with dodgeball weekly, if golf can't be played without 20 minutes of every telecast devoted to some rule brain fart.

01.22.2011 |

digsouth

I might add, that the players are a major part of this problem. Having to get an official before taking a drop from the 150 marker, etc. Man, almost as bad as watching tap ins and caddie lineups.

01.22.2011 |

digsouth

Dig - I do hope the new Longhorn alliance with ESPN will be called the Ocho - my favorite.

01.22.2011 |

RickABQ

I think maybe they get the rules official not because they don't know the rules, but because a) they know there are a bunch of nitpickers watching on TV, and b) because they see everyone else do it.

01.22.2011 |

JPB

Another reason players call for rulings as often as they do is that once a rules official tells a player how to proceed, the player is off the hook – even if the official is wrong.

As I recall, Ernie Els was incorrectly awarded a free drop away from a TV crane during the U.S. Open he won at Oakmont in the 1990s. The official mistakenly thought the crane was an immovable obstruction. The official messed up, but Els wasn't penalized for taking an improper drop.

01.22.2011 |

MJS

Why? Why reconsider the rule only days after saying it was off the table?

01.22.2011 |

Del the Funk

Digs. You only dig a bigger hole if Sponsors affect thr rules of golf.

01.22.2011 |

Adam Clayman

I think there is a tendency here to assume that golf rules are perfect, or very close to perfect, and to assume that any situation can be fairly adjudicated within the existing rules and decisions framework.

When the basic rules were written, there was no such thing as video recording, and the possibility of that technological development and its ramifications on The Rules probably wasn't forefront in their minds. But I can guarantee you that if Old Tom Morris thought some twerp watching TV in Sheboygan could call a TV station in Hawaii and have a player disqualified, he would have changed the rule pretty quickly. There is something fundamentally unfair about an element of fact being discovered after a round is completed, but penalizing the player as if it had been known during the round. The rules are supposed to be about equity, not silly, piddling technicalities that force tournament directors to take rash action and make intuitively stupid rulings.

Golf and its ruling bodies are very tradition-conscious, and like the other tradition-steeped sport, baseball, golf is very reluctant to change rules.

Basketball, football, and hockey are far more willing to experiment. I hope these statements by the USGA and R&A are indicative that they really are willing to experiment a little and modernize the rules.

01.22.2011 |

JPB

Perhaps the fault is so simple that you would think that the Player (Pro) would take some responsible for his error.

That was a clear violation due to lack of care, commitment or just simple skill. If the ball moved the player should say so, if he did not notice I have to ask, why. What happened to basic pride of one’s game.

Forget the rules this was a player's error – no need to get the UN.

If the R&A do anything it’s because they are solely interested in MONEY and not GOLF

Melvyn

01.22.2011 |

Melvyn Hunter Morrow

RickABQ......

THAT would be awesome.

Sadly UT football qualified as a "Ocho level" game last year!

Adam: Yes , I agree, and as Del asks 'why the flip?' , I throw out the consideration of 'pressure', the likes of which TF responds to (financial)

Certainly sponsors/networks should have no say whatsoever in the outcome of a sporting event, no whom may be the eventual winner, be it at that event or for the season championship, but look: we already have 'mdf'" .....any comment on where that came from ... daylight time considerations . or, or ? I don't know.

enjoy the weekend!

01.22.2011 |

digsouth

My Dear Mr. Morrow:

"That was a clear violation due to lack of care, commitment or just simple skill. If the ball moved the player should say so, if he did not notice I have to ask, why. What happened to basic pride of one’s game."

Quite a sentence-full, there, Mel. Mr. Harrington, his own self, stated that he did in fact see the ball move, but in his judgment it only oscillated. Which, according to the Rules of Golf, means that the ball did not move. That is: Did. Not. Move. Period. For this reason he did not call in a referee because the ref would have asked if the ball was in a different place and he would have said, "No." End of story. And please, take your "clear violation due to lack of care, commitment, or just simple skill" and "What happened to basic pride in one's game" back to where ever it is that you keep them. Mr. Harrington has been rightly taken to task for his somewhat deliberate pace on the golf course, but "lack of care, commitment, or just simple skill" or lacking pride in his game? Surely, my good man, you jest.

Thank you for your consideration.

I remain, most sincerely yours,

KLG

P.S. This sitting at my computer working all day Saturday on a grant application that will not get funded is for the birds, and I thank Geoff and my fellow Shackefordians for making it bearable by providing a useful diversion every couple of hours. At least it is too cold to play today...

01.22.2011 |

Ky Laffoon's Ghost

KLG...

try tying your computer to your bumper and dragging it around the block.

Ypu have a tradition to uphold.

01.22.2011 |

digsouth

Ky -

I know that feeling in your P.S. quite well! Good luck....

01.22.2011 |

RickABQ

'KY LAFFOON'S GHOST'

If he knew then there is no excuse, certainly knowing the close TV coverage may well have spotted its movement. So it should have been hands up and face the music, not waiting for others. The honourable way is the golfer’s way, so no I take back zero.

Now everything is called into question, seems mad for such a minor infringement, but then open honesty would have given him the high moral ground, not left it open to question.

We must hope that the message has got out that there is no hiding place as integrity is paramount.

No witch-hunt from me just sadness every time golf gets into the press for the wrong reasons.

Melvyn

01.22.2011 |

Melvyn Hunter Morrow

It has to be almost impossible to replace the ball in the exact same spot that we picked it up from...a dimple or two to the left or right isn't discernabe to the naked eye.
Lets get on with the game (and I think that is what Paddy was doing)!!
Unfortunately, now we will have 156 players wanting their own rules official to protect them from the couch potato police.

01.22.2011 |

harry h morant

Morrow, I hope you know that that Padraig could have moved the ball back (a dimple and a half) without penalty IF he thought it had actually moved (a dimple and a half) forward. So he had no advantage to ignore it IF he actually thought it happened.

01.22.2011 |

Morrow: You do realize that depending on one's visual perspective, the perception of movement of an object changes. It is entirely possible that to Harrington's eye, the ball did not change position, it merely oscillated.

And you do know the rule, right? The ball CAN move, but as long as the ball ends up in the same position as it started....i.e., it wiggled, or wobbled, but came to rest in the original spot...there is no penalty.

Do you further know that, if the ball DID change position in that situation, there is STILL no penalty, since the player moved it in the process of marking/replacing. The only thing he would have had to do in that case is....replace the ball in the original spot, without penalty.

So, if one suggests that Harrington is lying, and that maybe he knew it moved, but is fudging and saying he thought it only oscillated....well, that makes no sense, because the rule doesn't penalize him in EITHER instance.

I think you should reconsider that "taking it back" comment..... ;-)

01.22.2011 |

JPB

Gentlemen

You either play the game or you do not. You are open and honest or you are not. You support modern technology or you do not. Padraig made the error, no one else. To own up to a minor error that did not infringe upon the rules may have been the best way forward with the TV confirming his statement. Alas for his own reasons he did not, the fault is not mine but his.

But hey we all love the guy so should we turn a blind eye to his mistake, No IMHO address the issue, sort it then move on or is money yet again eating away at the heart of the game.

But Gentlemen lets not fall out, we live by our standards, well some of us do until they catch us up.

Melvyn

01.22.2011 |

Melvyn Hunter Morrow

It would be very easy to institute a local rule that disallows viewer call-in disqualifications. Someone should suggest that star players boycott events that don't adopt that rule. It won't take long for sponsors to ensure that their dollars go to events that give star powers a fair chance to compete.

Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2011/01/padraig-harrington-disqualified-in-abu-dhabi.html#ixzz1Bpm5Hx3J

01.22.2011 |

Mat Pruneda

I know you won't be convinced, Melvyn, and I'm not trying to pile on. But the way you write, I'm not sure you see the argument I, and others, I think, are making.

What I'm saying is that Harrington didn't make an error. The rules stipulate that the player is responsible for calling infractions on himself. This means that the rules accept a player's judgement, a player's perception. If, at the time, Harrington had been uncertain as to the facts, he could have asked for help. But he wasn't, and he didn't. Just as a rules official's judgement are considered final and binding, even if the official's decision is later found to be incorrect, Harrington's judgement in this case should be accepted.

The fact that a high resolution video, magnified and replayed in slow motion, shows that his perception was incorrect, does not necessarily constitute an "error" by a reasonable interpretation of the rules. The overarching principle of The Rules of Golf is "equity." Fairness. A human being, in judging the legality of his play, cannot be expected to be of super-human perception. What happened here is that a level of scrutiny was applied to a player unfairly. The rules should be amended to prevent this from happening again.

It's like the legal concept of the "truth of the trial."

01.22.2011 |

JPB

I agree 100% JPB.

01.23.2011 |

McHacker

Melvin,

With all due respect; what well writtin crock of sxxt.

Sincerely.,

digsouth

01.23.2011 |

digsouth

digsouth implies the player is wrong to call a rules official for a drop from the 150 marker. But what if it takes a funny bounce and now you are not 100% sure it did not end up 1/4 inch closer to the hole? No real advantage to 1/4 inch in 150 yards but you cannot redrop because if it is not really closer the redrop is illegal and someone might call it in. And you can't play it in fear some joker will call in if it was actually closer. And suppose it is now in a small divit so you know everyone is really, really watching. No wonder the smart move is to not take any drop until the official arrives. Meanwhile we all yawn. When does it stop?

01.23.2011 |

Hey JJ

I am not implying he is 'wrong'.....it is as you say ...where does it end?

If a player cannot take a simple drop, with a fllow contestant standing there watching, and create a legal procedure, witout fear of some couch slug calling in, etc; then the rules are not well written, and should be changed.

This is a simple game. Ball/ hole. fewest strokes wins.

Tommy/Geoff: does the library in LA have all the rule books backthru the years?....Is there a point where the rules were simple and fair? Does anyone know if all the ROG books are online?

have a good Sunday.

01.23.2011 |

digsouth

JPB, McHacker and Digsouth

When playing golf with friends, I am quick to point out if I have touched the ball even though it might not have moved. If it is within the rules I move on once I am certain that (a) I am happy with my own position and (b) that my playing partners are aware and in agreement. There is no other way if you call yourself a golfer.

Golf must be transparent and open, errors or mistakes mentioned or noted otherwise how can anyone be happy with their performance. I would rather own up and walk off the course than have my honesty questioned either then or worst still later in the club house.

But if this is regarded as a ’crock of sxxt’ then I have to wonder what standards are others willing to consider acceptable.
.
The strength of the game comes from within, compromise that belief and you are lost to yourself.

Melvyn

01.23.2011 |

Melvyn Hunter Morrow

You know, the PGA/EPGA could just forbid the TV productions from showing any closeups of actions around the ball. Wouldn't bother me a bit. Too much time spent on super slo mo of grass divot breaking apart vs actual golf being played.

If the producers of these telecasts are that in to their silly camera tech, they can show balloons bursing in SSM or a bullet going thru a 2x4......

Golf coverage should be of golf, not some science fair crap.

Make the couch narcs start watching lawn mower racing or......

01.23.2011 |

digsouth

Back to my earlier point of trusting players, but can we. If we allow modern technology re clubs/ball then we must allow TV coverage with its high tech facilities after all we do not want a charter for cheats – do we?

Melvyn

01.23.2011 |

Melvyn Hunter Morrow

@Melvyn

I think you may have “hit the nail on the head” when you said “hey we all love the guy”. I doubt people would be making so much of this if it had been Rory Sabbatini, Ian Poulter or Paul Casey. (Of course they would probably be making much more of this if it had been Tiger Woods about to win another major.)

Also I just want to say how much I enjoyed your writing on “The Walking Golfer”. Also – I am extremely envious of your family tree.

Cheers!

01.23.2011 |

mel

Mel

Many thanks, if you e-mail me with your e-mail details I will send you some old newspaper stories on past great matches of the 19th Century.

Melvyn

01.23.2011 |

Melvyn Hunter Morrow

Melvin,

you are interchanging varous events and descriptions.

have a nice day.

01.23.2011 |

digsouth

@Melvyn

That is a very kind offer. I don't know how to source your email address so please send correspondence to me at sparemail@rogers.com.

01.23.2011 |

mel

02.23.2011 |

irridgeAmbume

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