The Independent: R&A Will Be Staying Away From Turnberry

Thanks to reader Jeff for The Independent On Sunday's James Cusack report claiming sources within the R&A have say the governing body has "privately decided that his reputation is now so toxic that the newly renamed Trump Turnberry can no longer host the game’s most prestigious tournament."

From Cusack's report:

Although the R&A is stuffed full of establishment figures, Turnberry with Trump is now seen as a risk they will not take. Another insider said: “2020 will not happen here. Turnberry will be back. But perhaps not Trump Turnberry.”

Update on Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 02:35 PM by Geoff

**For the first time, the European Tour, thought to be ready to take the Scottish Open to Trump International for three playings as recently as this summer, is distancing itself from Trump. James Corrigan reports.

When contacted on Saturday by Telegraph Sport, a spokesperson for the European Tour said: “In 2016, the European Tour will play in 26 countries across five continents. We are proud of this cultural diversity, which is one of our many strengths, and therefore we do not condone the comments made by Mr Trump. In terms of the Aberdeen Asset Management Scottish Open, we are still considering future locations and will make an announcement on that in due course.”

Comments

[Chico]

This could also be wishful thinking on behalf of the Grauniad. Could also be true.

[N Johnson]

We have Portrush now. Nobody needs Turnberry anyway.

Host it at Gullane if you really need another venue- highly underrated course

[Darryl Patenaude]

Am I reading too much into this or does this smack of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS?

If this is all about PC then I suggest the R&A do something positive to help balance the situation. How about the R&A start a caddie program for the refugees?

There, FTFY.

[Carl Peterson]

I think it smacks of not wanting to be associated with an extreme ass-hat. Bravo R&A.

[Darryl Patenaude]

Carl,

Sorry to hear you're quitting your R&A membership.

[BrianS]

If Trump is serious about staying in this race until the end, he needs to somehow separate himself from his business interests. It is easy for a Senator or Congressman - career politicians - it is hard for their opponents to damage them based on their political positions. But Trump has Hotels, Golf, real estate and so on. I feel bad for the workers at these courses and the professional management of his companies - including his children - who have done well in improving these assets and are now seeing thier work go down the drain

[John C]

This will be corrected down the road... the Dubai golf resort has already restored the Trump name after like, 2 days?

http://news.yahoo.com/trumps-name-restored-dubai-golf-complex-092258534--finance.html

[DTF]

John C....funny how that story misrepresents the situation by saying the TRUMP lettering was "removed" and implies it was done so in some official capacity -- the after pictures made it clear it was done by some angry folks in the middle of the night....vandalism in its most simple form.

[Hawkeye]

Just curious - Those of you who chastise all Trump criticism as "political correctness"; on what side of the fence were you during the Shoal Creek affair in 1990?

Good call by the R&A. Shame about the golf course, though, the changes look great and the course will no doubt be improved immensely. But Turnberry will find its way back in the rota, eventually. All things must pass.

[Carl Peterson]

@Hawkeye, I wondered about that also. And, whether people are aware that the USGA (and I'm sure the PGA as well) have a standard questionnaire regarding club policies as they relate race/religion/sex restrictions on membership.

[BrianS]

@Hawkeye - there is a big difference between doing something - like excluding blacks from a club - and talking about doing something in the course of an election. Starting out with an outrageous position to give yourself room to retreat - while still getting alot of what you want - is a pretty standard form of negotiating a deal - something which Trump is quite good at.

[Golfin' Dolphin]

It's despicable that the spouse of the leading Democrat presidential nominee is a member at a Trump course. Too bad Hillary isn't a republican because then we could play the guilt by association game. (Rick perry visited a hunting camp called...)

How many other big shots, politicians, etc are members of trump courses? It's almost like all of this is contrived b.s.

[Hawkeye]

@BrianS: That's a pretty good point, but it implies that those who criticize people for distancing themselves from Trump aren't actually supporting his current political stance and also find his remarks to be extreme. And frankly, I don't get the impression that that is the case, judging from the nature of the comments around here. Besides, supporting someone while thinking he isn't actually going to go through with his promises sounds like a pretty dysfunctional democracy to me.

[DTF]

"And, whether people are aware that the USGA (and I'm sure the PGA as well) have a standard questionnaire regarding club policies as they relate race/religion/sex restrictions on membership."

Two things I'm pretty sure of....Shoal Creek never had a "club policy" that excluded anyone on race or religion....and, the quality of the courses on tour has dropped since the "questionnaire" era commenced!!

[Hawkeye]

@DTF: You don't think the quote "We don't discriminate in any area except against blacks. That's (accepting black members) just not done in Birmingham" in effect constitutes club policy? Or what the hell are you actually trying to say?

[digsouth]

BrianS--

What do you think about many of Trumps past dealings involving bankruptcies and his opinion that it is just part of doing business, even when it is planned in advance, and the lack of media coverage/investigation into Trumps financial ''casualness'' in the past?

I'm curious, because you seem to be pretty balanced in your posts, and I usually agree with them, in general. I can't get a handle on why there has be virtually no reporting on his dealings, primarily from some years back.

I make no bones about my thoughts on Trump. I don't like him, and I didn't like him before he ever sniffed the POTUS game. And for you trolls, I don't like HRC either, just to let you know. I have always been an indy, and voted both sides of the aisle, or for no one at times.

[Cgar]

@ Hawkeyes
Are you kidding me. Almost every politician says things they have no intention of doing yet people still support him or her because that person is on their political side. We have had horrible dysfunctional leadership for 16 years. Everybody needs to wake up and demand more from whoever they support. This site should skip the political bull crap and get back to golf.

[Carl Peterson]

>>
Two things I'm pretty sure of....Shoal Creek never had a "club policy" that excluded anyone on race or religion....
>>

Probably didn't need to specify be explicit about it. The questionnaire asks about the composition of the membership so the existence of a specific policy is necessary to raise the red flag.

>> and, the quality of the courses on tour has dropped since the "questionnaire" era commenced!!

A very small price to pay.

[KLG]

Hall Thompson of Shoal Creek said it and he meant it. That is why even though Birmingham was perfectly situated after WWII to become the so-called Capital of the New South, it became known as Bombingham instead. George Wallace and Bull Connor were too much, and William B. Hartsfield, Ivan Allen and the Kings, Sr. and Jr., made Atlanta that capital. As for Trump, he has the perfect right to say as he pleases. Everyone else has the same right to visit consequences upon him due to his bullshit, as they see fit. Or not. Richard Hofstadter identified Trump's "style" 50 years ago. Nothing new here. I do want to see the plans, though, for that wall and his immigration policies.

[BrianS]

@ digs - I honestly don't know enough about his deals/bankruptcies to know if they were ethically done or not. But I will say that in general, I would have to assume that any of his equity partners or lenders for a particular deal - lets just say Doral - would put their money in with full knowledge that they only security they have in the deal is the individual transaction - so if Doral goes bust, those partners would have no recourse towards the rest of Trump's empire, or his own personal assets. As long as that is properly disclosed on the front end, and under the assumption that rates charged, ect, were computed in line with their assessment of the risks involved, I have no problem with a Chapter 11 or whatever sort of conclusion to a failed deal.

[digsouth]

BrianS

I think you are right about Doral, ETC, for example. But I am really referring to quite a while back, and honestly, I needed to spend time on my health and other things, and quit reading a lot of info from both RW,Moderate and LW publications. I used to get daily emails from a wide variety of opinions and just had to let it go, with kids and only 24 hours in a day.

Thanks for responding and Holiday Greetings.

@Cgar

''We have had *horrible dysfunctional leadership for 16 years'' (*HDL)

I think we have had HDL since LBJ, and then when Carter was in, the interest rates were given a free ride, like no time in history. Now we have legalized loan sharks called payday loans, etc, etc, and the HDL is in all 3 sections of DC, including the SCOTUS. I mean , corporations have more rights than people--what's wrong with this picture?

[Laurel creek]

Geoff, whatever happened to free speech???? Let's punish a guy for an opinion . People have no guts love him or hate him... Trump is great for golf. Period. !!!!!

[Stiggy]

Laurel Creek, Trump's Freedom of Speech is not being impinged.

He has the right to say whatever he wants, equally the decision makers are free to decide not to allow their championships to be played at his courses.

How is his Freedom of Speech not being allowed?

[Carl Peterson]

Free speech doesn't mean that there are no consequences.

[Anderson 360]

"This site should skip the political bull crap and get back to golf."

what?...and lose all those clicks? no way!

[DTF]

Hawkeye, what I was trying to say is that I felt certain Shoal Creek had no specific club policy that excluded anyone based on race or religion (you'll notice I left out sex because I figured at the time they may just have had a policy on the books only allowing only men to join). Nothing more, nothing less.

That said, is the quote you reference above legitimate? Did Hall Thompson really say that? I'm not saying he didn't, just that I was unaware of it....

Carl, as for the "composition of membership", why would the USGA need to have a questionnaire filled out in order to ascertain such a thing? Surely they know their partner clubs better than that?

[Carl Peterson]

No, they don't know the composition of the membership of clubs that extend offers to host championships.

[KLG]

Yes, Del. He said it, paraphrasing: We don't discriminate in any way, except against blacks. Girls and Jews are welcome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_W._Thompson
IIRC, A noted, and canonized, 3-time Major champion also said he and the boys were laughing about it in the locker room. Of course, he was "young" then.

[DTF]

"No, they don't know the composition of the membership of clubs that extend offers to host championships."

Really? It surprises me that any material number of "unknown" clubs just appear out of the mist offering to host USGA championships....

Is this USGA "questionnaire" filling out process truly rigorous, meaningful, and needed? Or is it really just a box checking PR exercise?

Wonder when the last time was that a club filled one out and flunked?

[Carl Peterson]

Why would the USGA have such info on the members unless they asked? It's not like your GHIN card states your race or religion etc.

[Middle West PGA Pro]

Good move, R&A. I hope the PGA of America follows suit, and soon.

[Laurel creek]

I guess your correct. The R +A have their pompous board calling the shots.. Just like Augusta Gary McCord makes one slip of the tongue and he's fired from that tourney.. I have a great idea. Let's punish the businesses that depend on turnberrys rotation because they don't like Trump. The arrogance is limitless..

[DTF]

Carl....given their scope and reach, I simply find it illogical to think the USGA would ever seriously consider taking one of their championships to any club that isn't already well known to them. The questionnaire process would seem to be entirely superfluous.

Has any club ever filled one out and flunked?

[Carl Peterson]

Trump has been spewing his nonsense for months - he's not committing a slip of the tongue; he's executing a strategy of hate. He deserves any shunning he receives.

[Carl Peterson]

You can ask them, DTF. I think you're vastly overestimating their scope and reach (or underestimating who sends then invitations).

[DTF]

Ky...I had no idea the guy ever said anything like that...pretty f'g dumb.

If anyone cares, Shoal Creek is set up as a 501 and their 990 suggests the club is doing well. They have a 16 person board that appears to be diverse including a female director (very unusual), and if forced to guess I'd say there are at least 2 Jewish board members....can't determine race of any board member from the form!!!

They have hosted The Tradition (a PGA Tour senior major) for the last 5 years so presumably are in compliance from a questionnaire perspective....wonder how many black members there are today? And how many have there been since 1990?

[DTF]

"...he's not committing a slip of the tongue; he's executing a strategy of hate."

Do you really believe The Donald hates muslims?

[3foot1]

DTF, Whether or not The Donald hates Muslims - and I doubt he does - he's making it easier for others to do so. In effect, in several areas he's acting as a cheerleader for small-minded bigots. That's a dangerous form of demagoguery.

[DTF]

3foot1......you should move to Hollywood, in many cases imaginations like yours are highly rewarded there.

[Golfin' Dolphin]

The euro tour certainly is committed to diversity. They will absolutely host a tourney in a country that discriminates against gays and women, if the price is right.