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Friday
Feb202015

Merry Mex: "If I had a losing record in the Ryder Cup, I’d keep my mouth shut.”

Lee Trevino is standing up for his buddy Tom Watson in the wake of Ryder Cup and task force.

Cameron Morfit at golf.com with the report:

“Tom Watson is a good friend of mine,” Trevino says. “I’ve got a hell of a lot of respect for the guy, and I was really angry about the way they treated him [after his U.S. team was trounced at Gleneagles last fall]. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes, but the players have to understand he worked his butt off for two years and all they did was show up and go play.

“If Phil Mickelson wants to say what he said, it’s up to him. I thought it would have come out a lot better from someone like Patrick Reed, who went 3-0-1, instead of a guy who has been a part of so many losing teams. If I had a losing record in the Ryder Cup, I’d keep my mouth shut.”

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Reader Comments (78)

fire in the hole!
02.20.2015 | Unregistered CommenterRaoul
Lee predicted Tiger's maladies far in advance, i.e. circa 1998 or 1999.
Nobody gives him credit for being ahead of the curve on that one
02.20.2015 | Unregistered CommenterBlue Canyon
I think it's long past time for the old "Merry Mex" to keep his trap shut.
02.20.2015 | Unregistered CommenterAkronGolfMan
At risk of annoying Ed I'm going to agree with Lee! Other than Speith, Walker and Reed the USA team at Gleneagles were gutless. They could learn a thing or two from the old guard.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterChico
If Tiger had slammed Watson there would be nobody defending him. But Phil gets a pass. Why? He's the great white hope. He was the white boy who would challenge the swarthy fellow who stole golf from the honkeys. But he didn't challenge Tiger. He got his ass kicked. When it really counted, head to head, he got his ass kicked. So he will always be remembered as the runner up in the era of Tiger. And you know that keeps him awake at night. So when Watson benched him it touched his deepest insecurities. So he lashed out like an eight year old. And everyone's cool with it. Because Phil is the great white hope.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commentergolden horn
As much as I like Lee Trevino . . .
In the first place, I cannot imagine Trevino able to keep his mouth shut under any circumstance, whether he won or lost.
Second, I would love to know how the captain works his ass off for two solid years. Just what is he doing for two years?
Last, Old Tom Watson is one of the great golfers of all time. For that he deserves much respect and some slack. But he should still bear some degree of responsibility for his decisions as captain, just as the US golfers should bear responsibility for any poor play.
On the basis of the above, I disagree with Lee Buck.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commentergov. lepetomane
Trevino could add some spice to Fox's USGA telecasts, in a limited role.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterMedia Driven
I walked with Trevino's group for 3 holes at a PGA event years ago. I don't know how the other players didn't take a 9 iron to him after 10 minutes.

Lee wouldn't keep his mouth shut, because his mouth is never shut.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterdigsouth
"thought it would have come out a lot better from someone like Patrick Reed, who went 3-0-1, instead of a guy who has been a part of so many losing teams. If I had a losing record in the Ryder Cup, I’d keep my mouth shut.”

Old school at its finest...truth hurts
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterol Harv
PM was 2-1 at Gleneagles, and 3-1 at Medinah
So a rookie has more "rights" to speak up then
A guy that has been on 10 RC teams and had seen
First hand what works and what doesn't ? From
All the accounts published, the way that Watson
Treated the young guys is a big reason that PM
Spoke up. Btw, how did Trevinos stint as a Captain
Work out ?
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterBrianS
Damn...I love Trevino
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterjjshaka
Sorry Trevino, you didn't have to play strong "teams" like the way Team Europe is constructed. If he did, he may not be as successful.

Team USA and the PGA had to stop treating the Ryder Cup as a ceremonial exhibition and start creating it as a real competition, requiring consistent and coherent leadership, and consistent team building formula. Azinger was the first one to bring that view to the table in 2008. Phil built on that after Gleneagles and now true improvement is now in motion.

To make a good omelet, you gotta break some eggs.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDC
As DC has already hinted, who the heck did Trevino play in his Ryder cup years ?
The euros were so weak then it had become an embarassment. Nicklaus had to ask
for the euro team to be expanded, just to make it more competitive.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterssg
Trevino just sticking up for the guys, and as Brian S points out, he really didn't think it through before slamming Phil - just shooting from the hip. But Lee is an OK guy, a hustler who had to grind to make it, I give him full credit for what he carved out for himself. Where his whole argument comes off the rails is when he says "Tom worked his butt off for 2 years." What? are you kidding me? He was one of the least involved captians I've ever seen, and was clearly irritated by the magnatude of the event and his media obligations. He was exhausted before the event even started and was basically saying he just wanted to get it over with.

golden horn, I don't know what world you are living in, but it's different than the real one. There is nobody who can get away with more than Tiger. Period. He's done everything from cheating on the course and giving the middle finger to the media, to oscar worthy drama performances on his way to multiple WDs, and he gets 'a pass.' (to use your wording) Still there are delusional super fans who think underneath it all Tiger is really a great guy and he'll come back good as ever. Sorry to burst the bubble, he's not a good guy, he's shown the world his ass multiple times now, it's built up to the point his head is full of worms and snakes, and he will quite probably never crawl out of the hole he's dug for himself now.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterPress Agent
+1 Raoul "Fire in the hole".....you betcha

+1 Chico "At risk of annoying Ed I'm going to agree with Lee! Other than Speith, Walker and Reed the USA team at Gleneagles were gutless. They could learn a thing or two from the old guard."

+1 "Old school at its finest...truth hurts" A lot of truth in Trevino's comment Harv.

BTW, don't blame Trevino for who he beat...he played against the best of his time, period.

Regardless of what we all think about Super Mex, he earned the right to say what he said. Nobody on this blog has achieved what that guy did or played in 6 Ryder Cups and served as Captain in '85.....he be a better judge than any of us.

BrianS how many Ryder Cups have you captained?
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterPro from Dover
@Pro from Denver...."Other than Speith, Walker and Reed, the US Team was gutless..." Phil may have played poorly and also might have been wrong to take a shot at Watson, but he certainly shouldn't be considered "gutless." He practically begged to play Saturday afternoon, certain that he would win, and was considered the leader in the locker room Saturday night when Watson lost his players instead of motivating them. Actually, Mickelson was probably the epitome of someone on the team that showed some guts....
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterMSG
@Pro,

No one disagrees with his right to say what he wants. But if he spews out BS, people will call it out. That is our right that we citizens have earned.

Quite frankly, Trevino's thought implies that Phil had no right to talk. That's BS. Phil is the one that is competing now, not Lee. Phil has winning records in individual Ryder Cups and was on two winning teams. Phil is facing the competitive world today, not Lee. In no way should Phil be subservient to old timers living off of past accomplishments in a world that no longer exists.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDC
Trevino has every right to say his piece. But he is telling Phil to "shut up". He doesn't have the right to say that - he wasn't there. Watson is his friend, I get it, but to say that Reed has more of a right to complain about Watson than Phil does is is BS. - And I can say that regardless of how many teams I have Captained. (0)
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterBrianS
" From
All the accounts published, the way that Watson
Treated the young guys is a big reason that PM
Spoke up. "

Really, which young guys came out and said Watson mistreated them. Don't make stuff up Brian to try and prove your point. And do you think being sat in the afternoon had anything to do with Phil being pissed or was he just trying to be the self anointed "leader"? Somehow I've missed all the articles and interviews of any other player on that team saying anything about TW's leadership. So glad he stepped up and helped create the "TASK FORCE". Look at all the dramatic stuff they've already done to get it moving in the right direction...
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterol Harv
Here is my source:

http://golfweek.com/news/2014/oct/04/tom-watson-ryder-cup-phil-mickelson-change-u-s-cap/

Specifically:

But the biggest shock was delivered by Watson in two-part harmony. Friday night, he told Mickelson and his hand-picked partner, Keegan Bradley, that they would sit out Saturday morning four-balls. They had beaten Rory McIlroy and Sergio Garcia in that format Friday morning, but apparently Watson didn’t think they played well, then he apparently became disgusted with the way Mickelson and Bradley got beaten by Graeme McDowell and Victor Dubuisson, 3 and 2, in afternoon foursomes.

“Phil wasn’t happy, but he understood,” said a source.

The second half of the Watson shock? It came Saturday morning, and Mickelson didn’t understand this one at all. Watson met Mickelson, Bradley and Simpson in the lunchroom and told them that they would be on the bench for the afternoon foursomes, too. (It meant that Simpson, who had played in Friday morning’s four-balls, would sit out three straight sessions and play just twice in this Ryder Cup.)

Several sources said the news was enough of a blow to Mickelson, Bradley and Simpson; what made it worse was how blunt Watson was, disparaging the way the three of them had played Friday. To Mickelson, the captain had crossed the line.

“Phil’s a leader,” said a source who was in the locker room all week. “His fatherhood came out. He’s a protector. He was angry with the way Watson had talked to Keegan and Webb.”
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterBrianS
" said a source who was in the locker room all week. "

Am I still missing something Brian. You are assuming a lot here.Sounds like a wife or a caddie. Where are the quotes from the other players on the team Brian, that you said didn't like the way they were treated by Watson? I see a quote from another leader, Furyk, and he didn't say anything about Watson treating the young guys bad. Also, are you saying that Simpson should have been playing. Not playing Simpson may have been the smartest move Watson made. Poor decisions, absolutely. Treating the young players poorly, no proof of that.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterol Harv
@ol Harv

Actions speak louder than words:

"Spieth and Patrick Reed thought they would play Friday foursomes after winning in four-balls, only to be benched."

Though they didn’t criticize the decision, the pair couldn’t hide their surprise at being benched for the alternate shot.

“We were 100% certain we were going back out,” Spieth told golf reporter Stephanie Wei.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/ryder-cup-bench-jordan-spieth-patrick-reed-tom-watson-johnny-miller

If playing is the ultimate sign of respect, getting benched after torching your opponents is a sign of disrespect. Getting benched after signals to you suggest that you were going to play is disrespect.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDC
Here's Tom Watson treating the benching as comical at the time:

“When I told Patrick that he wasn’t going to play in the afternoon — it was comical at the time, not so comical now — I said, ‘How does that make you feel?’ He said, ‘Well, I’m all right with it.’ He said, ‘Well, really, Captain, I’m not all right with it. I said, ‘That’s the way I want you to be.’"

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2014/09/27/maybe-watson-shouldnt-have-benched-rookies.html

Playing head games with someone who just torched European's stalwarts is a sign of disrespect. They earned the right to play in the afternoon and Tom sat them. His ego suggested to them they were not a good fit. You can't get more disrespectful then that.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDC
Look, I only know what I read, you know what I'm saying ? This has been hashed over plenty of times. You want to ignore it, or think the sources were lying, that is your prerogative. Seems 100% in character for Watson's mission to "get tough".

As far as Simpson, again, it doesn't say that benching him was the problem as much as the manner that it was done. If you are the Captain, don't you want have the guys (Simpson, Keegan, and Phil) in a good place so as to play well on Sunday ? Putting them down and humiliating them in front of their peers - especially for the young guys - you think that helps you win some points on Sunday ? You think telling a bunch of pampered Tour players that they "suck at foursomes" puts them in a good mindset to rally for the upset comeback ? Maybe it should, maybe they shouldn't be so pampered or thin skins, but they are - and as Captain you have to deal with that reality, not your vision on how guys that are 30 or 40 years younger than you should behave. Unless you just want to prove a point (how tough you are) instead of helping the team win.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterBrianS
I believe the only guy to state in a interview that Watson did a great job as captain was Rickie (A Marketer's Dream) Fowler. What's his playing record in the RC?

'Nuff said about that. He's been coached in the modern day school of PR spin. Style over substance/Fashion over Form rules the day sadly.

Pretty sure most of the team were not happy with captain Tom.


I've always said Paul Goydos is who the USA needs. Fat chance of that happening.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterJohnnnycz
Never said Watson did a good job, obviously some ridiculous moves. But he was the Captain, named by Teddy B and the PGA. "Sources" have confirmed that Phil's displeasure for the way Tom was Captaining started WAY before the event. Now, if you're TW and you get wind of that, you think that might piss you off and weigh on some future decisions? You think Watson is a dumbass who didn't know Phil was questioning his every move behind the scenes? He let his emotions sway him into making poor decisions, evidently he was willing to live with what happened if he didn't play certain guys. Still would love to know the "sources". Still searching for the articles where the young players said Watson mistreated them??
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterol Harv
John, Have not read one post where someone above said Watson "did a great job". Where are you getting that from?

"Pretty sure most of the team were not happy with captain Tom."
Based on what?
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDBP
Phil complained to Bishop at the Scottish Open. Presumably, Bishop gave Tom a heads up. Shouldn't it been incumbent on Tom as the Captain to get with Phil and clear the air ? He's the clear veteran leader of the team. Of course at that stage, Phil wasn't on the team based on points. Tom could have done what McGinley did to their veteran leader - Westy - and told him no worries, you will get picked, But Tom let Phil twist. He had publicly said he would likely pick Tiger in advance, he declined to do so for Phil. But whatever, that was his right as Captain - so then you reap what you sow - one of, if not the, most important guys on the team comes in feeling disrespected and on a different page then the Captain. All avoidable with a little communication and giving a $#%# on the part of Tom.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterBrianS
PM's 51st in President's Cup points - I hope he doesn't feel disrespected if a spot isn't being saved for him.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterCarl Peterson
Brian, with all due respect to you and Phil, I have a feeling you guys might not have played many team sports growing up, and if I'm wrong, must have had some coaches who just did whatever you wanted him to? I hated half my coaches for the BS they spewed, but I dealt with it. Guess those days are coming to an end. Must be why they can't get anyone to coach or run these leagues anymore. Coaches can't win with the modern day parent. You pretty much answered your own question Brian. "Of course at that point Phil wasn't even on the team on points." Exactly, and playing poorly if you remember. Many were saying Watson would be nuts at that point to pick Phil. He took care of that in the long run. But why the hell should TW have stepped forward and told Phil he was a lock? You cannot be serious about that? Why would he be a lock? Because he's a leader with the young guys? WOW, I give up. Welcome to 2015 Harv...
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commenterol Harv
Wasn't The Ryder Cup last year? In September? Six months ago?
02.21.2015 | Unregistered Commentereucalyptus
A couple of things - I'm not saying Phil should have been a lock to be on the team - or at least that it shouldn't have been debatable. If you want to debate it, I'll say that he was one year removed from winning two 2 events in Scotland, and in awesome fashion. Or, that with a team with a lot of youth, an experienced hand - one that the young guys revere - would be good person to have on the team. And I would have picked Tiger btw, for similar reasons, even though I am not a fan. Tom could have told Phil - hey, my thing is I really want to see you make the team on points, so I can pick a hot player from this last months play - and btw Phil, I just know that you will do it, I have that faith in you. Or he could have done what McGinley did and tell Phil he was on the team. But he did neither of those, he left him hanging. Communicate !!!!!

As far as teams, I've been on plenty. From youth to now, including in non-sports environments. This is not youth sports, where the Coach is god the father, and the players need to obey or else. Coaching Adults, especially high achievers in a solo sport - takes some finesse. Read "The Jordan Rules" about Phil Jackson and Jordan. To be successful, achieving consensus with your top stars is very important. You need to "Win the Locker Room" - it isn't given to you. Tom ignored the need to do this and since they lost, he gets blamed. Again, that is/was his right, he wanted to take an old school approach. But unfortunately, Old school coaching and new school players - given a mere 1 week to mesh - doesn't work that well.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterBrianS
Ol Harv asked for quotes where the young guys felt disrespected. I showed him the facts displaying the disrespect. He ignores it and hold it to his narrow stance, despite facts to the contrary. Clings to his straw man arguments. Nothing can be done about that.

Phil and the team are superstars, the top 1% of the 1%. Old school coaching cannot apply. You have to follow the Phil Jackson style of coaching.

Watson didn't do that. Phil called him out on that. That's valid and legitimate. There's nothing like Lee Trevino or his like that can change it.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDC
Bishop asked Watson to bethe coach after Old Tom said in an interview that he would love another shot at the job. Bishop should not have gone that way, hell if Arnie had gotten a little misty eyed and said he would like to do it again he might have been given the job. I like the idea of the job of Captain being a two term deal, one home one away. That way th shirtfolders of America will get the comitment they want, and assistant captains will get a feel for the job and be ready wehen the time comes.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterA
"You have to follow the Phil Jackson style of coaching."

How bout the Phil Jackson style of management? Not quite working out for the Knicks when you don't have any talent.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDBP
" Old school coaching cannot apply. You have to follow the Phil Jackson style of coaching."

What style is that, have the best players and you will win? LOL
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterWill Ettinger
1. Have the best players
2. Win.
3. Ascribe the victory to your management style.
02.21.2015 | Unregistered CommenterCarl Peterson
@Will

Duh? You answered your own question. Tom Watson had the opportunity but chose not to have the best players. He left Billy Horschel off the team, and going with Webb Simpson over a midnght text message. That already shows he was incompetent.

Phil Jackson has 11 rings with 2 different franchises and 2 different sets of superstars. You don't think he knows how to get the best out of superstars? How many rings did Shaq and Kobe have before Phil?

How about Scotty Bowman? 13 Stanley Cups with different franchises and different superstars? He is not a my way or the highway coach. No one would have thought of creating the "Russian Five." How many rings did Yzerman and Fedorov have before Bowman?

Sorry guys, but just like Trevino, your arguments don't hold water.

Facts are facts. Tom Watson had the opportunity to get the best US players on the team and he didn't. He disrespected the young players after they torched the European stalwarts. He disrespected his veterans. Phil saw all this coming, and he had the right to speak up. Nothing you or Lee can do anything to change that.
02.22.2015 | Unregistered CommenterDC
@ Carl AMEN "PM's 51st in President's Cup points - I hope he doesn't feel disrespected if a spot isn't being saved for him."


"YOU SEE, YOU LEARN SOMETHING WHEN YOU LISTEN TO OLD PEOPLE. THEY AIN'T FOOLS, SEE. YOU DON'T GET TO BE OLD BY BEING NO FOOL, SEE. A LOT OF YOUNG WISE MEN ARE DEADER THAN A MOTHERF&*%ER, AIN'T THEY?" Richard Pryor

All I am saying is Trevino has as much right, and a million times more experience than any of us on the blog, to speak his mind about Phil's comments. Period. If anyone of us can voice our comments - void of experience in the matter, albeit BrianS proclaims his experience is worthy "As far as teams, I've been on plenty" of being compared to Captaining a Ryder Cup Team -- then Trevino, just like Azinger that so many cling to as the all-knowing Mahārāja - is more than qualified to offer his opinion -= more than all of us With all due respect to BrianS' s team knowledge prowess.

Play better. That will throw water on the hot Euro Teams, play better. If we don't suffer by going 1-9-1 with our veterans (Woods, Stricker, Furyk in 2012) we might have a fighting chance.

And comparing Phil Jackson or Scotty Bownan with Tom Watson is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Comparing a professional basketball or hockey coaching profession to being a Ryder Cup Captain for a 3-day exhibition / competition (choose one) every other year is not comparable. Ridiculous comparison. Did Watson make some mistakes, of course he did. If the Euro Team hadn't outplayed the USA Team this thread wouldn't exist.
02.22.2015 | Unregistered CommenterPro from Dover
Hey DC. Ever heard of Vince Lombardi?
02.22.2015 | Unregistered CommenterWill Ettinger

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