Merry Mex: "If I had a losing record in the Ryder Cup, I’d keep my mouth shut.”
Lee Trevino is standing up for his buddy Tom Watson in the wake of Ryder Cup and task force.Cameron Morfit at golf.com with the report:
“Tom Watson is a good friend of mine,” Trevino says. “I’ve got a hell of a lot of respect for the guy, and I was really angry about the way they treated him [after his U.S. team was trounced at Gleneagles last fall]. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes, but the players have to understand he worked his butt off for two years and all they did was show up and go play.
“If Phil Mickelson wants to say what he said, it’s up to him. I thought it would have come out a lot better from someone like Patrick Reed, who went 3-0-1, instead of a guy who has been a part of so many losing teams. If I had a losing record in the Ryder Cup, I’d keep my mouth shut.”
Reader Comments (78)
Nobody gives him credit for being ahead of the curve on that one
In the first place, I cannot imagine Trevino able to keep his mouth shut under any circumstance, whether he won or lost.
Second, I would love to know how the captain works his ass off for two solid years. Just what is he doing for two years?
Last, Old Tom Watson is one of the great golfers of all time. For that he deserves much respect and some slack. But he should still bear some degree of responsibility for his decisions as captain, just as the US golfers should bear responsibility for any poor play.
On the basis of the above, I disagree with Lee Buck.
Lee wouldn't keep his mouth shut, because his mouth is never shut.
Old school at its finest...truth hurts
So a rookie has more "rights" to speak up then
A guy that has been on 10 RC teams and had seen
First hand what works and what doesn't ? From
All the accounts published, the way that Watson
Treated the young guys is a big reason that PM
Spoke up. Btw, how did Trevinos stint as a Captain
Work out ?
Team USA and the PGA had to stop treating the Ryder Cup as a ceremonial exhibition and start creating it as a real competition, requiring consistent and coherent leadership, and consistent team building formula. Azinger was the first one to bring that view to the table in 2008. Phil built on that after Gleneagles and now true improvement is now in motion.
To make a good omelet, you gotta break some eggs.
The euros were so weak then it had become an embarassment. Nicklaus had to ask
for the euro team to be expanded, just to make it more competitive.
golden horn, I don't know what world you are living in, but it's different than the real one. There is nobody who can get away with more than Tiger. Period. He's done everything from cheating on the course and giving the middle finger to the media, to oscar worthy drama performances on his way to multiple WDs, and he gets 'a pass.' (to use your wording) Still there are delusional super fans who think underneath it all Tiger is really a great guy and he'll come back good as ever. Sorry to burst the bubble, he's not a good guy, he's shown the world his ass multiple times now, it's built up to the point his head is full of worms and snakes, and he will quite probably never crawl out of the hole he's dug for himself now.
+1 Chico "At risk of annoying Ed I'm going to agree with Lee! Other than Speith, Walker and Reed the USA team at Gleneagles were gutless. They could learn a thing or two from the old guard."
+1 "Old school at its finest...truth hurts" A lot of truth in Trevino's comment Harv.
BTW, don't blame Trevino for who he beat...he played against the best of his time, period.
Regardless of what we all think about Super Mex, he earned the right to say what he said. Nobody on this blog has achieved what that guy did or played in 6 Ryder Cups and served as Captain in '85.....he be a better judge than any of us.
BrianS how many Ryder Cups have you captained?
No one disagrees with his right to say what he wants. But if he spews out BS, people will call it out. That is our right that we citizens have earned.
Quite frankly, Trevino's thought implies that Phil had no right to talk. That's BS. Phil is the one that is competing now, not Lee. Phil has winning records in individual Ryder Cups and was on two winning teams. Phil is facing the competitive world today, not Lee. In no way should Phil be subservient to old timers living off of past accomplishments in a world that no longer exists.
All the accounts published, the way that Watson
Treated the young guys is a big reason that PM
Spoke up. "
Really, which young guys came out and said Watson mistreated them. Don't make stuff up Brian to try and prove your point. And do you think being sat in the afternoon had anything to do with Phil being pissed or was he just trying to be the self anointed "leader"? Somehow I've missed all the articles and interviews of any other player on that team saying anything about TW's leadership. So glad he stepped up and helped create the "TASK FORCE". Look at all the dramatic stuff they've already done to get it moving in the right direction...
http://golfweek.com/news/2014/oct/04/tom-watson-ryder-cup-phil-mickelson-change-u-s-cap/
Specifically:
But the biggest shock was delivered by Watson in two-part harmony. Friday night, he told Mickelson and his hand-picked partner, Keegan Bradley, that they would sit out Saturday morning four-balls. They had beaten Rory McIlroy and Sergio Garcia in that format Friday morning, but apparently Watson didn’t think they played well, then he apparently became disgusted with the way Mickelson and Bradley got beaten by Graeme McDowell and Victor Dubuisson, 3 and 2, in afternoon foursomes.
“Phil wasn’t happy, but he understood,” said a source.
The second half of the Watson shock? It came Saturday morning, and Mickelson didn’t understand this one at all. Watson met Mickelson, Bradley and Simpson in the lunchroom and told them that they would be on the bench for the afternoon foursomes, too. (It meant that Simpson, who had played in Friday morning’s four-balls, would sit out three straight sessions and play just twice in this Ryder Cup.)
Several sources said the news was enough of a blow to Mickelson, Bradley and Simpson; what made it worse was how blunt Watson was, disparaging the way the three of them had played Friday. To Mickelson, the captain had crossed the line.
“Phil’s a leader,” said a source who was in the locker room all week. “His fatherhood came out. He’s a protector. He was angry with the way Watson had talked to Keegan and Webb.”
Am I still missing something Brian. You are assuming a lot here.Sounds like a wife or a caddie. Where are the quotes from the other players on the team Brian, that you said didn't like the way they were treated by Watson? I see a quote from another leader, Furyk, and he didn't say anything about Watson treating the young guys bad. Also, are you saying that Simpson should have been playing. Not playing Simpson may have been the smartest move Watson made. Poor decisions, absolutely. Treating the young players poorly, no proof of that.
Actions speak louder than words:
"Spieth and Patrick Reed thought they would play Friday foursomes after winning in four-balls, only to be benched."
Though they didn’t criticize the decision, the pair couldn’t hide their surprise at being benched for the alternate shot.
“We were 100% certain we were going back out,” Spieth told golf reporter Stephanie Wei.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/ryder-cup-bench-jordan-spieth-patrick-reed-tom-watson-johnny-miller
If playing is the ultimate sign of respect, getting benched after torching your opponents is a sign of disrespect. Getting benched after signals to you suggest that you were going to play is disrespect.
“When I told Patrick that he wasn’t going to play in the afternoon — it was comical at the time, not so comical now — I said, ‘How does that make you feel?’ He said, ‘Well, I’m all right with it.’ He said, ‘Well, really, Captain, I’m not all right with it. I said, ‘That’s the way I want you to be.’"
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2014/09/27/maybe-watson-shouldnt-have-benched-rookies.html
Playing head games with someone who just torched European's stalwarts is a sign of disrespect. They earned the right to play in the afternoon and Tom sat them. His ego suggested to them they were not a good fit. You can't get more disrespectful then that.
As far as Simpson, again, it doesn't say that benching him was the problem as much as the manner that it was done. If you are the Captain, don't you want have the guys (Simpson, Keegan, and Phil) in a good place so as to play well on Sunday ? Putting them down and humiliating them in front of their peers - especially for the young guys - you think that helps you win some points on Sunday ? You think telling a bunch of pampered Tour players that they "suck at foursomes" puts them in a good mindset to rally for the upset comeback ? Maybe it should, maybe they shouldn't be so pampered or thin skins, but they are - and as Captain you have to deal with that reality, not your vision on how guys that are 30 or 40 years younger than you should behave. Unless you just want to prove a point (how tough you are) instead of helping the team win.
'Nuff said about that. He's been coached in the modern day school of PR spin. Style over substance/Fashion over Form rules the day sadly.
Pretty sure most of the team were not happy with captain Tom.
I've always said Paul Goydos is who the USA needs. Fat chance of that happening.
"Pretty sure most of the team were not happy with captain Tom."
Based on what?
As far as teams, I've been on plenty. From youth to now, including in non-sports environments. This is not youth sports, where the Coach is god the father, and the players need to obey or else. Coaching Adults, especially high achievers in a solo sport - takes some finesse. Read "The Jordan Rules" about Phil Jackson and Jordan. To be successful, achieving consensus with your top stars is very important. You need to "Win the Locker Room" - it isn't given to you. Tom ignored the need to do this and since they lost, he gets blamed. Again, that is/was his right, he wanted to take an old school approach. But unfortunately, Old school coaching and new school players - given a mere 1 week to mesh - doesn't work that well.
Phil and the team are superstars, the top 1% of the 1%. Old school coaching cannot apply. You have to follow the Phil Jackson style of coaching.
Watson didn't do that. Phil called him out on that. That's valid and legitimate. There's nothing like Lee Trevino or his like that can change it.
How bout the Phil Jackson style of management? Not quite working out for the Knicks when you don't have any talent.
What style is that, have the best players and you will win? LOL
2. Win.
3. Ascribe the victory to your management style.
Duh? You answered your own question. Tom Watson had the opportunity but chose not to have the best players. He left Billy Horschel off the team, and going with Webb Simpson over a midnght text message. That already shows he was incompetent.
Phil Jackson has 11 rings with 2 different franchises and 2 different sets of superstars. You don't think he knows how to get the best out of superstars? How many rings did Shaq and Kobe have before Phil?
How about Scotty Bowman? 13 Stanley Cups with different franchises and different superstars? He is not a my way or the highway coach. No one would have thought of creating the "Russian Five." How many rings did Yzerman and Fedorov have before Bowman?
Sorry guys, but just like Trevino, your arguments don't hold water.
Facts are facts. Tom Watson had the opportunity to get the best US players on the team and he didn't. He disrespected the young players after they torched the European stalwarts. He disrespected his veterans. Phil saw all this coming, and he had the right to speak up. Nothing you or Lee can do anything to change that.
"YOU SEE, YOU LEARN SOMETHING WHEN YOU LISTEN TO OLD PEOPLE. THEY AIN'T FOOLS, SEE. YOU DON'T GET TO BE OLD BY BEING NO FOOL, SEE. A LOT OF YOUNG WISE MEN ARE DEADER THAN A MOTHERF&*%ER, AIN'T THEY?" Richard Pryor
All I am saying is Trevino has as much right, and a million times more experience than any of us on the blog, to speak his mind about Phil's comments. Period. If anyone of us can voice our comments - void of experience in the matter, albeit BrianS proclaims his experience is worthy "As far as teams, I've been on plenty" of being compared to Captaining a Ryder Cup Team -- then Trevino, just like Azinger that so many cling to as the all-knowing Mahārāja - is more than qualified to offer his opinion -= more than all of us With all due respect to BrianS' s team knowledge prowess.
Play better. That will throw water on the hot Euro Teams, play better. If we don't suffer by going 1-9-1 with our veterans (Woods, Stricker, Furyk in 2012) we might have a fighting chance.
And comparing Phil Jackson or Scotty Bownan with Tom Watson is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Comparing a professional basketball or hockey coaching profession to being a Ryder Cup Captain for a 3-day exhibition / competition (choose one) every other year is not comparable. Ridiculous comparison. Did Watson make some mistakes, of course he did. If the Euro Team hadn't outplayed the USA Team this thread wouldn't exist.