Video: Rickie Tests A Persimmon Driver On Trackman

Rickie Fowler tested out a persimmon driver on Trackman and instructor Claude Harmon III captured it. What do you think of the numbers Trackman enthusiasts?

@RickieFowler going Old School! pic.twitter.com/eR57UzdXjD

— Claude Harmon III (@CH3golf) January 12, 2017

Comments

[Neil Young & Geraldo]

Incredible numbers. Spin is obviously way too high but other than that it's just wow. If the shaft is 43" then I'm even more shocked.

Those guys are special

[Rob S]

Or Trackman numbers are wrong and meaningless.

[Ivan Morris]

Of course, the driver is 43". It's the ball, it's the ball, it's the ball. I don't need Trackman numbers to tell me it is the ball. I have carried out enough experiments with various clubs from different decades to know - it's the ball. He is a good player that young man - he'll do well if he sticks at it.

[Don]

Not forgiving so you have to swing in a manner to hit it dead center. From a more civilized time.

[Taffy]

Clearly it is the ball. I would like to see him hit some balata balls or at least some Titileist Professionals to see a true comparison

[just me]

I'd like to see him hit some old Top Flores also just to see how current balls compare to the low spin balls

[Hawkeye]

Impressive, but hardly surprising. I guess there are a few of us left who have driven it over 300 yards with persimmon and balata! My personal best was a drive pin-high on a 340-yard Par 4 (downwind, I admit) with a Cleveland Classic TC15 that I still have in my garage. When hit solidly, they were as long as any metal driver. Just not as forgiving...

[Tremendous Slouch]

It's impressive, but likely 20-30 yards short of his trackman numbers with his regular driver, so, yeah, equipment.

[Easingwold]

Nicklaus would have carried it well over 300 with that ball in his heyday. Definatly the ball.

[JC]

No true test until a balata ball is included.

[The O]

The ball doesn't explain the clubhead speed.

[BDF]

That's impressive. I'd like to see ten shots to see what the average was...mishits would be more fun to look at.

[The Ghost of Perry Maxwell]

Not sure I believe this.

[Press Agent]

Hey guys, this wasn't NASA testing a component designed to go to mars. It was a couple of guys having a bit of fun on the range. Nor are they looking to submit the data to the USGA to 'prove' something. Some of you need to relax - sometimes a guy with a persimmon driver and a trackman is just a guy with a persimmon driver and a trackman. Nothing more, nothing less. just enjoy.

@The O +1

@Easingwold, There are so many things that could affect the scenario you've put forward, the one thing it would not be is definite. Regardless of how you spell it.

[Easingwold]

@ Press Agent, allow me to put it this way, the balata flew 10% less than the two piece rocks of the early '90's. Today's balls go even further than those rocks, but with that classic balata feel. Jack carried the balata 270 in his prime with a persimmon. He'd carry well over 300 alright. Modern driver, 340 wouldn't surprise me, he was a beast who hit it straight.

[Free Derry]

Easingwold papering the place with pathetic bullshit as is his wont daily. Bugger off you muppet.

Don guys like Rickie hit it in the middle of the clubface regardless of how hard they swing!

[Chris from DE]

And the Pro V1 does not feel like a balata ball. I've never felt anything that felt like a balata ball. Not since I played a balata ball, that is.

[Don]

@Free
Don guys like Rickie hit it in the middle of the clubface regardless of how hard they swing!
"Draw and wasn't swinging out of his shoes. When he did the quality of the strike was bad and ball went nowhere." CH3

Everybody has a breaking point where they sacrifice accuracy for distance. That's why having a tennis racket driver isn't fair to the courses. You can swing even harder.

[Peter Norrie]

@Easingwold - the only modern balls that are remotely close to the balata feel are the really low compression balls like the Callaway Soft. Today's Pro V1s are equivalent to the old Pinnacle in feel.

[Easingwold]

@Peter Norrie-I understand. I hit balatas when I started playing, but preferred the two piece rocks( as a beginner) Pros around that time used balatas for control, averaged about 265-270 then, 1991. They could probably get 300 with those two piece rocks we used back then, but they wouldn't spin like balatas. My whole point is today they have great distance and spin with the modern ball. I accept they don't feel like balatas, just used them to highlight Fowler's test of the persimmon didn't really add up with the modern ball. Accept I could have worded things better.

[PA PLAYA]

I like stuff like this. It reminds me how good these guys today really are, despite all this bs talk about how much better the clubs are, how much better the ball is, etc. Talent is talent.

No different probably from the perception I would've had with Nicklaus, Player, Arnie, Trevino, etc. back in the 70's and 80's. Nicklaus was a beast. No equal. As was Arnie for a number of years prior, using said equipment during his prime.

Still appreciate the history and legacy of this game. May we never forget the foundation their talents laid.

[PA PLAYA]

Note: 50's, 60's and 70's. My 80's culture is kicking in, thanks to iHeart Radio playlists.

Apologies.

[Alec]

That's right in line. I graduated college in '95 and we did spin and launch angle, with steel/persimmon and graphite/steel heads the range with a Titleist Professional was 2900-3300 @ 108-116mph and our ideal launch was 9°. The steel shaft is 120-135g so that's at least 50 more than his gamer so I'm a little surprised he's that fast, but it's not shocking at all, he's not a short hitter. This is the whole story in a nutshell, whatever the ratio of the ball or the club is the fact remains that if the drivers spin at around 3000 instead of 22-2500 everything returns to the historical norm. Nicklaus, Palmer, Norman and even Snead all flew the driver 260-280. Plus it's so much easier to work the ball when it spins.

Gimme back my Pro 90 lol, this new stuff feels like shit, sounds like a plastic rock, doesn't turn and flies more like artillery than a golf shot. It's supposed to fight coming out of the air and sizzle off the face, don't think we don't remember...

[smooth]

Feel this feel that........you are all knobs because none of you can actually feel the softness/hardness of the ball. Its the sound it makes off the club face. The ball stays on the club face for such a short time that we have no actual idea of feel. I roll my eyes when i hear `i love the soft feel of the club or i really prefer the pro v 1 because it feels softer`. You are all having a lend of yourselves.

[meefer]

1.49 smash factor is a good way of showing this swing produced efficient energy transfer.

The joy of using the persimmon, or laminate for that matter, was the size difference and the repeatability of achieving a 1.49/,50...much more difficult. A full on swing increases the chance of missing that efficient transfer and increases the chance of increased sidespin. Both of which, IMO, improve the nuances of the game.

[meefer]

@ smooth "Feel this feel that........you are all knobs because none of you can actually feel the softness/hardness of the ball. Its the sound it makes off the club face. The ball stays on the club face for such a short time that we have no actual idea of feel. I roll my eyes when i hear `i love the soft feel of the club or i really prefer the pro v 1 because it feels softer`. You are all having a lend of yourselves."

Can't say I appreciate being called a knob when my experience is not the same as yours. Two experiences lend me confidence in assuring you one can feel the differences. First: When Top Flight came out with the Strata, I could never get that sucker to the hole. A Titleist balata, no problem. Loved the distance off the tee with the Strata, but putting...there was a different feel. Of course, two different types of ball construction. Second: There's no comparison to my old Mizuno MP 32s and a comparable age cast club. One is softer than the other. Take a look at the faces of older forged vs cast clubs and the amount of bag chatter that mars the faces. I'm sure you'll find the Mizunos are more marked up. Due to the amount of carbon in the steel: Mizuno most often uses 1025, a mild steel, while a cast Ping uses alloys which include chromium and nickel. The type of steel used results in a Rockwell hardness for 1025 of 71 and for cast heads a Rockwell hardness north of 80. Also to be considered is the annealing process for cast iron clubs which reduces the hard and soft spots of the original cast. The type of heat and cool cycle(s) can affect the hardness of metal when the process is finished.

[Kevin part deux]

Meefer- I hear you, but most (actually almost all) "feel" in golf is related to sound. The ball just isn't in contact with the club (putter through driver) long enough to allow us to detect a true difference in feel.

[Chico]

The figure that really surprised me was the spin. Despite somebody thinking it was rubbish I actually thought that under 3000 with a persimmon was remarkable. When I was first put on a launch monitor with a persimmon and a balata I was nearer 5000!!. Sounds. A bit like the ball! A well struck persimmon would always go a long way but the sweet spot is tiny so like many others I would love to see data from a lot more shots. Yes these players hit the sweet spot all the time( well most of the time!)- with today's drivers. They wouldn't have with wood. Nicklaus couldn't, Watson couldn't, even brilliant drivers such as Price and Norman couldn't. And they weren't bad! Today's ball goes a lot further. Today's drivers are way more forgiving. Golf at elite level has never been easier. Sadly that's why courses are now too hard. "Feel is noise"-100% true!! I was involved in a Titleist experiment at Turnberry testing Balata, 2 piece and what was to become the ProV1- when they put ear protecters on us we had no idea what we were hitting!!

[theundergroundgolfer]

Re: Chico's post and the concept of feel, I seem to recall an article discussing a similar Dave Pelz experiment, perhaps in the early 90s, in which a number of professionals did a woeful job identifying the type of ball struck. He controlled for sight and sound, and after each shot he'd ask the pro whether he'd hit a balata or two piece. Turns out the pro's conception of "feel" was really just a function of how well struck the shot was (ie, the pro assumed every ball struck on the center of the face was a balata, whereas off-center hits were called out as a two piece...)

[Redneck]

Boo hoo. The ball goes too far. Courses are too long. I can't 'feel' the ball. Drivers are too forgiving. Club head speed's too high. The game's ruined. Boo hoo.

[Tom Morris]

Then at the end of the day the Design (GCA) allows the golfer the freedom to do what he wants. Link that with todays ball/club technology and golfers fitness - why are we so surprised. Good design on land fit for purpose can really help to control the game - the key word being 'good design'!

[NC]

Miss that sound . . .

[MuskieCy]

A Spalding Dot, Red Maxfli, or Titleist K2A is the real confirmation. Rickie has just proved that DSP works no matter what the club head is constructed from.

Keep buying the latest and greatest. Just ignore the numbers behind the curtain.

[Chico]

@ Muski-agreed. Persimmon was/is great. From the middle. I used to reckon there was anything up to 40 yes difference between my 100% hits and a mis- hit!

[Bill]

Need to learn how to win Ricky. Everything else is just entertainment.

[Charles]

274 yards.In the 70's and 80'a there were golfers who could not 100 yards further.Modern sports people are such tossers