Third Ryder Cup Question: Did The Course Setup "Backfire"?

I've seen and heard in several places how the course setup (fast greens and no rough) backfired on Captain Davis Love. Before the matches, there had been suggestions the USA had a few tricks up their sleeves while Lee Westwood said he saw the approach favoring neither team.

Now, the match was decided by a point. The U.S. played particularly well in the foursomes and four-balls where they historically haven't been as strong.

The only impact I saw was in the way the setup tactics possibly inspired the Europeans to overcome a perceived obstacle. There may have been many other instances we'll learn about in time from players about little things that were done to aid the Americans.  Otherwise, Curtis Tyrrell and team's beautifully conditioned Medinah seemed to reward shots from both sides and allowed skill to dictate the outcome instead of rough or the actions of PGA setup man Kerry Haigh.

Thoughts?

Comments

[Hawkeye]

Whether it backfired or not can be debated, sure, but the main point is that the set-up was absolutely instrumental in creating the best and most exciting Ryder Cup ever. We finally saw a big event embracing what you've always advocated, Geoff, a set-up that encouraged aggressive play off the tee, exciting recovery shots and greens where coming in from the correct angle actually made a difference. So what that it allowed someone to shoot 62 on a US Open course - wasn't it the most amazing thing to watch? More of this in the future, please!

[Colin MacGillivray]

Dead right Hawkeye.
It's really daft to think a particular course set up will suit one nation's golfers when that nation hosts most of the best players in the world.
"No rough" suits wayward tee shots but all the players seemed very capable of those.

[Dubai Pete]

Easily the compelling golf I've seen in 40 years of watching the game. These guys - all 24 of them in the event - are without exception great players and to suggest that the course set up favoured one team over the other is ridiculous. Based on what I've read in this blog I'm starting to reconsider making the trip to Merion next year ...

[FT]

A few observations on Medinah:
1) After the K Club, Valhalla and Celtic Manor, Medinah was a signficant improvement! Pity the RC is going to Gleneagles next. But Whistling and Le National will be exciting venues!
2) Course setup was a bit one dimensional: when even TW with his crooked driving feels confident enough to basically hit driver on every hole, it shows the risk-reward was not evenly balanced if one believes that driving is a key skill of the game
3) The fairways looked in poor shape - particularly nr. 1, nr. 10 and nr. 15. While they were firm they seemed to have had no or little growth on them!
4) The greens were fantastic - in design, speed and firmness. Every putt held its line beautifully when struck well!
5) Bunkering not very challenging for top pros - I only recall deep bunkers on 16, all the others were v shallow
6) Disappointing Par 3s: individually they are all good holes, but three out of four just look too similar

[david]

By eliminating rough I assumed Davis wanted to turn it into a putting contest - which we know would normally be in favour of the US and to the detriment of the likes of Westwood, Garcia and Molinari. He couldn't have known that Stricker and Furyk would let him down at the crucial moments ( although Furyk had shown signs of vulnerability recently ), or that Rose would suddenly start holing bombs.

[johnnnycz]

I liked seeing them be able to advance and go for the green regardless of the lie of the ball...however, it looked like on a few holes that some wild drives/iron shots actually rolled out and ended up in a better spot than if say the rough was 1" higher. I'm nitpicking here as usual, but I would like to see them go to 3 grass cuts. Fairway, Intermediate/second cut being +0.75" taller, Primary rough being another +1.0" but would only be found well within the drip line of the trees lining the fairways.

Otherwise...the course setup favored no one team, they all got to play some practice rounds and the pin positions are given out well in advance. "Home Course" advantages are kind of overrated in golf IMO....the ball sure doesn't care who's on the other end of the stick.

[Ghost Golfer]

The venue was the problem. It's what back fired.

[gov. lepetomane]

Answer to third question:
No.

[Ian]

Geoff was right. The setup was great. The US were brilliant, and it came down to a few putts for their name putters (Stricker, Furyk, Woods). DL3 can't be blamed that they missed them, and that Sergio had a couple of chipins while Phil didn't.

[Knee Bend]

It was great golf, and the course seemed very good, if a bit lacking in strategic risk/reward options.

But great golf would be even greater played over the great, classic courses.

Imagine a Ryder Cup at The Old Course, with the wind blowing three different ways on three different days.

Or Shinnecock, or Royal County Down.

Or Augusta. (I know, I know.)

The greatest golfers assembled over the greatest courses.

Regardless, it was a magnificent contest that was great for our magnificent game.

[Robert Matre]

The only thing that backfired was the pin placement on 17 on Sunday, not that it could have been predicted.

[gov. lepetomane]

@ Knee Bend. Just thinking about a Ryder Cup at ANGC is mind boggling. It could be the most watched golf event ever.

@ FT. Agree about three of the par 3 holes at Medinah being quite similar. Is that a very good design plan, Geoff?

[Ron]

One thing that backfired was the number of porta-potties. 30-40 minutes in every restroom line.
My group didn't drink a drop on Sunday after learning the hard way on Friday that going back an forth between a 20 min beer line and a 30 min toilet line was no way to spend a once in a lifetime sporting event.

If you're looking for a reason the Americans faded, look to the fans that were stone sober and not living up to their 13th player potential.
Seriously.

[Hilltop]

The set-up did not favor Furyk or Stricker, so in that case, it did backfire. I never understood Davis making it a point to set up the course for long bombers and then picking two short hitting players for Captain's picks.

[Amen Coroner]

FT driving used to be a critical skill. Iron play used to be a critical skill. In fact ball striking used to be a critical skill. Today the only critical skills are mostly mental side, playing in less than perfect weather, wedge and putter.

[Amen Coroner]

Hilltop, great point. That is exactly what and how it all backfired - picking experienced RC losers who are known on Tour for being great wedge players and putters. As we have witnessed - experience is not a necessary thing in the RC. Just ask the rookies from KY (Boo, AK, JB, etc) and Fowler last in Wales. Had Davis gone with long bombers more suited to the course set-up that also don't know what its like to lock-up in the heat of a critical moment it could have hit the mark instead of backfired.

Considering your point would you have chosen Holmes, Garrigus, Stanley, Piercy, Woodland, or Kokrak?

Personally I would have gone with Garrigus, Piercy, and Stanley.

[Rohan]

Course set up for Ryder Cup was perfect for matchplay - more exciting for everybody

[dsl]

I've got an preposterous idea. It's insane and impossible and it would surely make Mr. Jones roll over in his grave. BUT, can you imagine if they set up Augusta National like this?...

No, forget it. It's too bold. It could NEVER work on that course...

The course setup was brilliant. If it backfired, it was only because it seemed so alien to the golfers compared to every other week. It must have been like playing on Mars...

[Tim]

Geoff - I think Davis set up a beautiful course for a match play event. I think he turned it into a pre-renovation Augusta, which as we know did not necssarily favor just US players (especially in the 80s!), and it was great to watch.T hat said, I agree with others that the Par 3s were too similar - back and forth over the water - but while that may not make for a great design it does lend itself to very exciting golf and good TV as well.

To answer your question, you cannot say the set-up backfired on anyone. The Euros had a bunch of hole-outs on Sunday and the US team had a bunch of near misses. You can think of about 50 moments that would have turned the tide to the US if they had not happened - Phil's chip going in; Rose's putt on 17 going 10 feet by, etc.. But that's why they play to the end - and why golf is a 4 letter word!

[walkie talkie banks]

You stopped holing putts and we started holing everything.Is that a set up problem?

[omatv]

One of Geoff's links from a Euro newspaper over the past few days mentioned that the greens had been "ironed" between morning and afternoon sessions on Friday and Saturday and thus were faster in the afternoon than the Euros expected. Any idea what this means? Is it the same as greens being rolled?

[Hilltop]

@Amen Corner: I like your picks. Two other guys I liked were Fowler and Bud Cauley. Fowler, because he's someone who enjoys match play and would do well in both singles and team matches. I think Davis wanted him on the team, but he just didn't play well down the stretch. I think Cauley is going to be a great player, win a bunch of events and a major or two before he's done. Plus, he seems like a really nice kid and would have been a good fit for the team. Neither of these guys are total bombers, but both are way up the list on driving distance compared to Furyk/Stricker. To your point, both are young and would have that Keegan Bradley enthusiasm.

[digsouth]

The course was fine. Medina 3 is known for the par 3's looking the same, a terrible design flaw on an otherwise beautiful track. To have played at least one(17?) at a short 130-150 yardage would have enabled a bold pin placement that players would have went for, instead of all bailing out long.

The captain's picks were predictable doom. Stricker has not had his usual putting prowess this year; Furyk can't close this year; to sacrifice picks based on who TW wants to play with- well how did that work out?

As to the outcome of the match...with so many games going back and forth, one up, one down, all square..... it was like a race- it doesn't matter if you are leading 499 miles, just that last one. Europe won the last one more than the US.

[Amen Coroner]

Fowler is too So Cal cool compared to the Bo Sox style of Keegan. Bud seems like he could be a fiery type player a la Keegan and will hopefully make the next team. Both are sneaky long for small in stature guys.

I just looked at the Driving Distance Stat and Final Fed Ex Cup standings. Maybe swap out Stanley for Fowler but based on the setup that DL3 went with I would still pick Garrigus and Piercy who played all the way thru the Coke A Cola Tour Champ.

[Tim]

As for the picks, no one else was playing decently so I find it hard to criticize DL3 for that. To the earlier points about wedge players, though, I really have to question the way the US team playe the 15th hole. For example, on Friday Stricker went first and hit into the water so TW had to lay up. The same thing happened with Zach and Dufner. I know they are the best of the best but doesn't the typical member guest strategy make sense here - first guy lays up and second guy goes for it once a ball is in play? In both cases the better wedge player would be laying up ....

[Steve Wozeniak PGA]

The better "team" and better "players" won again........PERIOD.......

You could play anywhere in any conditions and this will hold true........

[digsouth]

So the question is- ''Will the ruling on the anchored putter style come down this week, or next week?''

[Cheese Head]

The story line being followed revolves around "how can the superior Americans lose?" I think that's wrong - the Europeans were the better team!

The picks were fine, the course was fair, the strategy was sound. DLIII was a very good captain.

We were beaten folks - they are better than us. They want it more, work harder, and the Ryder Cup is the ultimate achievement for them. And they are simply better under the gun.

Accept it for what it is.

[G-Man]

I think Davis did an awesome job with the course set-up. He made the best of a terrible Reese Jones redesign. The golf was very exciting, pin placements were mostly fair and the course allowed for some great recovery shots. I didn't like the pin placement on 18 on Sunday. It made it too hard to get a 3 on that hole. I think Justin Rose was the only player all of Sunday to get a 3 on that hole. Given all the pressure of the Ryder Cup, the course set-up should always be easy.

I wish more courses would be set-up for this style of play. I hate that most tour venues have to grow jungle rough and cut fairways as wide as two parking spots because the courses lack a strategic element.

I think the PGA picks terrible US courses for the Ryder Cup. Whistling Straights in 2014 - really?! the US is going to get slaughtered there. Hazletine in 2016?! There are so many better courses. Why not do the west coast!!! RIVIERA would be an unbelievable venue! Or go with Sawgrass - I hate that course, but its Kryptonite for Rory so the US would have an edge there.

[act38]

@Cheese Head

"the Ryder Cup is the ultimate achievement for them"

This sometimes comes across as a backhanded compliment, and I'm not sure it's even true. Ask players like Luke Donald, Lee Westwood, Justin Rose if they'd swap a Ryder Cup win for a major and I'm pretty sure they'd say yes. They do seem to want to win the Ryder Cup more than the Americans but not because it's the ultimate achievement for them.

[Hawkeye]

@Tim & G-man: Mike Davis doesn't set up Ryder Cup courses, the name you're looking for is Kerry Haigh.

[johnnnycz]

@tim: The member-guest strategies work great for stroke-play hit and giggles but are not applicable for pros and match play at all.

Playing together, all things being equal, pros will always go for the riskier shot first and then rely on the more experienced player to be a safe "backup". Reason being, is if the 1st player pulls off a tough shot over, say water, to a small par-5 green as is looking at an eagle, the the 2nd player has a chance to put even more pressure on the other team by following suit, potentially setting up TWO chances to win a hole. If the first player forgets to put on his balls and decides to "wisely" lay up (and then maybe screws it up) then the team has one less option to win the hole.

Pros and Amateurs have totally differing mind/skill sets...and the rules should reflect that IMNSHO.

[Tim]

@Hawkeye - I was referring to Ryder Cup captain Davis Love III, not USGA Executive Director Mike Davis. DL3 had significant input on the set-up last week.

@johnnycz - when the first to tee off is (1) a short knocker who can't necessarily reach the green and (2) one of the best wedge players in the world then pro or amateur laying up makes sense. Would you have told Zach Johnson to go for the par 5s at Augusta because he is a pro and has a different mind-set? The fact is, the strategy you advocate back-fired on the US and put handcuffs on our players in crucial moments.