Thursday
Mar282013
Podcast: State Of The Game, Ted Bishop
The latest edition of State of the Game is posted and PGA of America president Ted Bishop took a few minutes away from his duties at The Legends Golf Club and as head of the organization to talk with Rod Morri and myself about the anchoring ban, distance and the health of golf.
As always, you can subscribe or listen via iTunes, or listen below:
Thursday, March 28, 2013 at 07:33 PM 25 Comments | in Belly Putter, PGA of America, State of the Game
Reader Comments (25)
Bishop sounded as though everything was reasonably well thought through...well that is with the exception of the 1-ball rule comments! Obviously there's more to it than what he said.
Rod, hate to disappoint you, but "robust discussion" isn't something that's in Arnold's repertoire (if it ever was). Thinking critically just is not a skill Arnold has ever possessed.
Geoff, I think the four foremost reasons "the game is in trouble" are access, cost, time, and competition. Outside of having a parent who is a private club member, gaining access is extremely tough for kids. Even if the access issue is overcome between equipment and green fees getting a kid going and sustained in golf cost a ton of money. A sports writer recently referred to "the microwave world we now live in"...door to door under even the best of circumstances 18 holes is a 5-hour commitment (for me it's over 8!). Outside of the traditional sports soccer took away a lot of kids and now lacrosse has EXPLODED. (Bishop touched on some of these later)
Kudos to Bishop for showing up!
I have an opinion, and it's my opinion. Ted, and his 27,000 members (where only 4,000 completed a questionnaire) are victims of apathy. They scratch their heads, and worry about losing a single player, and at the same time they love all the technical advances in equipment that is suppose to help make the game fun for beginners, yet we all look arou d and see the game dying. Wonder what's causing all the recreational golfers to drop off the scene?
Has it ever occurred to Ted, and his silent 22,000 members, that a lot of the technical advances in equipment has favored the professional to the larger extent than the recreational club golfer. Jack Nicklaus pointed out 7-8 years ago that the recreational golfer could no longer RELATE to the game the pros are playing. Jack said amatuers always tried to beat the pro on pro am days, but with the new equipment the possibility of beating the pro on pro am day was a forgone conclusion. I believe Jack was right, where is the APPEAL now for the recreational golfer who can no longer relate? If we can't golf anything like the pros then let's find something else better to do like gaming on the internet, or social media, like Ted just pointed out.
Guys like Ted see the recreational golfers dropping off like flys, then make the statement that distance is not slowing the game down, but at the same time he says his 35 year old daughter doesn't have the time to play like be had when he was younger.
Ted, when you were 35 the yardage looked like this 3,400 3,400, 6,800 for 18. Today it's 3,750 3,750 7,500 for 18. Anyone who would tell you that a 600yrd par 5, or a 250yrd par 3 was fun to play would make a great used car salesman. Not only does the recreational golfer not relate, it's going to take him 6 hours to complete his round. Hey guys, instead of golf whatya say we go bowling or fishing tomorrow, yeah, great idea, that way I can get back to the wife and kids before my wife ships me out to the dog house.
At the most, there are 10 members that can handle our back tees on the main course
which is under 7100 yards
The gold tees are just over 6700.
Educating morons about playing inappropriate tees might be important.
Over reacting to less than 1% of golfers by lengthening your course is another problem.
I carry the ball just about 255-260 right now, and I play the golds.
But,
was Geoff .... #Dufnering through most of this podcast?
Uncharacteristically quiet. Respectful, but quiet.
Ted came off much less a loose cannon than I thought he might
FWIW the main problems with modern golf are well documented. It takes too much time, too expensive, too hard to play, too elitist, yadda yadda yadda.
These are all old comments that have been around the block. My take is that golf is suffering the same slow "death by the nanny state" as the rest of society in general. The mollycoddling psychology surrounds us. Heaven forbid we allow a child to even step near a bicycle without a helmet, elbow/knee/groin protection...let alone leave em alone on a driving range with their friends with nothing but a 5-iron, 2 large buckets, and their imagination.
Nowadays, you would have to triple check that you are insured before allowing a child anywhere on their own. Gone are the days when as a kid, I could jump on my bike, ride to a friend's house and meet up with others and go out for some fun around the river/lake and then maybe hit the arcade and 7-11 before dark...all without helmets and not yet being 13. Call me a radical but it was just assumed that, if I fell and hurt myself, then it was my fault unless exigent circumstances dictated otherwise.
I remember a few times coming home with a busted head and scarred face, or cracked wrist and my folks DID NOT molly coddle me, rather the opposite...they got mad first to make me learn what I did was stupid, then they took care of the lacerations and stuff like loving parents would. Today, kids just get "Awwwww...are you OK? Are you hurt? Do you want an ice-pack and your teddy-bear?" The lesson part of being scolded is omitted altogether in our modern society.
These days, child services would've be at my parent's door demanding an "interview" about the welfare of their children.
He mentioned 4 Conditions of Competition which are different between the majors - but two of those (embedded ball & stones in bunkers) are actually Local Rules for local abnormal course conditions. Only the 1 ball condition and practice putting are CoC's which modify existing Rules.
He then went on to clearly explain Local Rules logic and why it would not work for anchoring.
Surely making the hole larger for seniors by CoC would be a better option which he has missed?
Boy, you sure caught Bishop 'good' towards the end there with his contradictory state of the game claims. (lol)
Think I'm going to have to listen again because I must surely must have misheard Bishop's claim that the club amateur would lose 20% distance in a rolled-back ball?
He also seems to suggest that banning anchoring is likely to have a deleterious effect on growing of the game. Funny, I thought that was down to a global recession.
If the PGA of America follows-through with its threat to ignore the proposed ban then I wonder how long it will take before it loses 'major' status for its premier event?
There's the Punt, Pass and Kick, the PGA Tour could call it Bomb Drive, Tiddly Winks.
it's funny how disingenuous some these arguments can sound when trying to create connection btwn cause and effect...
it's the economy and this was covered well in the discussion
good job guys
economix(dot)blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/22/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-american-wages/
Wages for working men, adjusted for inflation, have decreased 19% since 1970. This was masked by the increasing entry of women (wives and mothers for purposes of the present discussion) into the workplace. Since 2000 the wages of women have stagnated. Now any nominal increase in income is absorbed by the accompanying yearly increase in health insurance (sic) premiums coupled with a decrease in coverage levels. Where I work now, so-called "major medical" kicks in after about $5000 out of pocket and then there is still that 20%. People say golf is too expensive. Maybe. But just as likely is that given the parlous state of working America (virtually everyone in the bottom 95%), it just doesn't make the cut anymore and is not likely to for some time to come. Five years ago this month golf became a complete superfluity in my family, for about two years, for reasons of simple economics. That was not particularly unusual. Ted Bishop's golf course looks great on the web and I'm sure memberships are affordable. Or, they should be. But until this:
www(dot)irle.berkeley.edu/events/spring08/feller/
and this:
en(dot)wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
are reversed, the Business of Golf will remain in dire straits.
Except at courses like Sebonack:
www(dot)bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aUAm6QdMCbkU
and the rest of the traditional GD Top-200 where the 1% have someone to clean their clubs and their shoes in the locker room.
But as even the Golden Bear has discovered, the 1% eventually run out of the need, if not the money, for another golf course. The demand among the rest of us is there. The wherewithal is not.
OK, fire away!
knowing his was facing opposing views:
a) he did a great job
b) so did you, showing respect to his views
Nicely done
A rare, respectful mindset in internet world.
Will be listening more often.
Again, kudos
I don't agree with him and think Bishop's thoughts on distance are absurd, but he's not alone in thinking more distance will grow the game. More than anything, its just nice this kind of discussion is going on somewhere since the magazines are bought and paid for by the manufacturers.
Geoff...you had a chance to really put Ted on the spot after your rant/question. That was the time to stick the knife in and give er a twist.
His response to the ball being rolled back was kinda muddled when looked at the pro-anchoring position the PGA has taken and his argument that the pro-am distance gap is closing fastest at the bottom of the hcdp spectrum was sheer fantasy/delusional. My experience has been that high hdcpers have been driving the ball up to 200yds pretty much forever. The better and highly skilled players have always gotten the full benefit of the new technology from the past 10yrs.
Rod, I usually d/l the cast directly from your site (iTunes and my Luddite version of the Mac OS don't get along).
I couldn't find this one on talkingolf. Is there a chance you might post it up please? I'd like to give it another spin.
"There's the Punt, Pass and Kick, the PGA Tour could call it Bomb Drive, Tiddly Winks".
The PGA comes out this week with the Drive, Putt, and Chip....now Bishop is stealing my post quotes.
Not a single original idea from the PGA of America think tank....par for the course.