Punters Beware: Plodders May Thrive At Oak Hill

Steve DiMeglio goes out on the course Monday and returns to file a story suggesting the rough will be the story at this week's PGA Championship.

And not just because it's thick and tall. Keegan Bradley warned:

"Look at this. The ball is 6 inches off the ground," Bradley said Monday as he placed his 60-degree wedge near the ball in the thick rough. "You're going to see a lot of whiffs this week. Guys are going to go straight under the ball."

Of course, the ball also could end up all the way at the bottom of the thick grass.

And this from Phil:

"I'm sure they're going to cut some of it, but it was extremely thick, and so therefore the key to that course is going to be two things," Mickelson said "One is the fairway; you've got to hit fairways. You can leave yourself further back, but you've got to hit fairways. And two is Donald Ross courses, the greens tend to be a little bit more severe back to front, and I think you're going to have to leave it underneath the hole. Chipping from behind the greens it's almost impossible to get it close."

Sounds exiting!

Update on Tuesday, August 6, 2013 at 12:17 PM by Geoff

**I've just toured six holes, have 12 more to go and while the rough is dense and mean, there is plenty of forgiveness in the greens and landing areas for scoring. More later with some great insights from Tiger and Phil.

Comments

[Chris from DE]

From an interview with Craig Harmon, long-time head professional at Oak HIll:

"The greens are benign looking and just don't break like people think, so you have some subtleties on the greens to challenge them. There are so many greens that slope from front to back, and they are kind of flat so you can't really see the break."

So who is correct here? Phil or Craig?

[No longer Used to be Former Stack & Tilt Convert]

Don't forget Lee Westwood's quote:
"I'm all for rough. There should be a proper penalty for missing fairways in majors."

[Cassie]

Rough?!?

So not Torrey > Doral > Bay Hill > Firestone.

[Mashie]

Chris, both Phil and Craig are pretty much saying the same thing. The Ross greens tend to move back to front and Craig points out they are "kind of flat" meaning no big hog-backs or different levels. Problem is there are only 14 Ross greens at Oak Hill. 5, 6, 15 and 18 are relatively new put in by the Fazio's for the '80 PGA. 18 was moved to the crest of the hill. 5, 6, and 15 have been redone several times since and they never seem to get them "right". The old time members are still bemoaning the loss of the original Ross holes.

Interesting comment from Craig regarding the '68 Open and distance: “In 1968, the average driving distance in the U.S. Open at Oak Hill was 246 yards. Lee Trevino won the event at 244. Nicklaus was the longest hitter in the field at 271. Now there will be nobody in the field who hits it just 271. The course back then played about 6,900 yards long. So for the players today to hit the same shots that Jack Nicklaus hit into the greens, the course would have to be about 8,300 yards."

[Chris from DE]

It seems like Phil is saying they slope back to front, i.e., back is higher than the front. Craig is saying they slope front to back, i.e. front is higher than the back.

Maybe two ways of trying to communicate the same thing. Obviously, you wouldn't have a very desirable course if the greens tiltled from front down to the back. Only sand wedges would hold the greens. You'd hit long on every green and then chip back up to the pin.

Should be interesting to watch it all play out. Wish the PGA arranged for CBS to play fewer commercials. Maybe that would increase the prestige of this event.

[Mashie]

Chris, oops missed that in the Harmon interview. Not sure what he means. Maybe misquoted. Back of 1 falls away a bit and parts of 17 but not others as I recall. Hole #17 was designed as a 5-par by Ross and plays as a 5 for member. 505 for PGA and very awkward hole. I stood on the back of #3 tee in 1968 and watched Gene Littler and Don Bies hit 4-woods. Stood there in 2003 for PGA and watched the guys hit 5 and 6 irons from a longer tee. One last distance story. Practice round in '03. Langer, Clarke and Westwood on 18. Clarke and Westwood called for a driving contest. Langer made a bet with the crowd that he would come in last. Langer hit 4 wood into green (Hole is about 490). Came up short into cliff. Clarke and Westwood are up ahead hitting what appeared to be 7 or 8 irons in. Langer proceeds to hit a second 4 wood over their heads!! They are unaffected. Langer hits a third 4 wood over their heads and once again comes up short. They turn around, laughing, and kid him about not being able to reach a 4-par in two. BTW, Langer made the cut while Clarke and Westwood missed it.

[3foot1]

It's also possible that the pro, Craig Harmon, was either misquoted or he was saying that the greens slope UP from front to back. It's not the conventional way of expressing it, but if he was making an up-sloping hand gesture (like a plane taking off) as he spoke, his meaning would have been crystal clear to the interviewer.

[JR]

They all slope back to front. They are not super undulating, especially compared to the West course.

If you miss 13 over the green, you will not stop the ball above the hole coming back.

[The O]

@JR, that's fine. You don't want to stop the ball above the hole. You want to stop it in the hole, or slightly underneath it. What I suspect the problem be that they won't stop the ball on the green coming back.

[No longer Used to be Former Stack & Tilt Convert]

This is not the first Ross course with trouble over the green.

Rough or no, long = severe challenge on most Ross courses, including next year's Open venue where there will be no rough. Phil's quote will apply to #2 as well. exciting

[Jeremy]

I always love when Geoff has decided a major will be boring before a shot has even been struck.

[Gabe]

"How exiting!"???? I think this was a typo, but then again, with all that tall rough, we could see a lot of top players "exiting" before the weekend.

[Mashie]

Hole 13 is a bear. Over is no good, and hole high miss is no good. If green speeds are up hole high on the green is no good either as putt will be running sideways at the hole. Brad Klein says they will cut this green higher due to slope. Last time I played it the left side of the fairway on the lay-up did not have an avenue to the green due to trees. Second shot lay up has to flirt with FW bunkers on the right. I don't believe the green has ever been reached in two. Interesting to see if someone can drive it over Allen's Creek and reach it. Phil said today winning score may be double digit under. In all the championships at Oak Hill East, a total of 10 players have finished under par, Nicklaus twice, with -6 in '80 PGA the lowest ever. In 2003 PGA Phil was +8 and Tiger was +12.

[Question]

Question:

Who was the biggest fluke winner of the PGA in the past 10 years?

Y.E. Yang
Shaun Micheel
Rich Beem

?

[Mashie]

Well, Beem is technically out of the 10-year window, but for discussion sake he does have 3 PGA Tour wins. Yang has 2. Micheel is the obvious answer, but what about Martin Kaymer as a "fluke" winner since he won on a "fluke" (D. Johnson in the sand) and, seriously, he has a grand total of one PGA Tour win in America.

[Stiggy]

There is no such thing as a "fluke" winner of a golf tournament.

They are the best player that week, normally beating over 100 other players.

They may be surprise winners but fluke implies a hole-in-one after hitting a tree or spectator.

That is simply not the case in a 72 hole golf tournament.

[Question]

fluke

/flo͞ok/

Noun

1. Unlikely chance occurrence, esp. a surprising piece of luck
2. A parasitic flatworm

----------------------

I was referring to the first definition, Stiggy

[3foot1]

In Stiggy's defense, playing superb golf for 72 holes isn't a matter of chance or luck. You can call it improbable or unlikely or surprising, which Micheel's win definitely was, but for a professional golfer it's not luck.