Considering The Chances Of Another Major At Chambers Bay

For anyone hosting a major or thinking of doing so, Tony Dear's Links piece is worth a read given the high-profile Chambers Bay experiment.

As the story notes, it succeeded on the financial and ratings front, but agronomically left a scar that is now being rectified by a creative conversion to poa greens.

Since June 2015, Johnson has increased cultural inputs (mowing, rolling, fertilizer, pesticide, water) to favor annual bluegrass establishment, and is seeding the greens with the only commercially available annual bluegrass turf—Poa reptans Two-Putt. “The good news,” he says, “is that it establishes pretty well. The bad news is that its prolific seedhead production in the first year or so gives the greens that blotchy appearance.”

Johnson has also begun saving and analyzing clipping yields from the greens in an effort to monitor growth and make better decisions on when to cut, seed, fertilize, and irrigate. “Every-day play is our focus as a public course,” he says. “I want smooth greens as well as consistent speed and firmness.”

On the financial side, Chambers continued the trend of public-access venues raking in more money for the USGA (we won't know how Erin Hills fared for a while):

According to its Annual Report, USGA revenue from its Open championships (U.S. Open, U.S. Senior Open, U.S. Women’s Open) in 2016, when the U.S. Open was played at Oakmont, was $53.3m. In 2015, it was $64.3m. 

The irony in all of this is that Chambers would make a great PGA Championship venue...in August. May? Not so much. Though still certainly doable and capable of bringing big energy and bigger West Coast ratings.

Comments

[AK47]

A PGA in August? It's a bad design, Geoff. The greens were only a part of the problem (a big part, granted). All the elevated holes are bad to play and worse to try and see someone else playing. Amazing to me that oddball Jones, Jr gets paid millions to design anything.

[KS]

+1 AK47

Do the world a favor and never go back. It's a dreadful golf course.

[MJR]

Not a good course at all. No matter how many times I get told how great it is, how great that the public can play here, how it converted some garbage railyard or whatever. The course stinks, I would never play it when I am in Seattle (since it is NOWHERE NEAR Seattle).

I would be perfectly fine with a tournament out there to take the place of some boring, godforsaken TPC. But it is not worthy of a major championship

[GolfOutsider]

Looks like Gary Player bots are commenting on this site. Yay!

FWIW, I've played Chambers w/ at least 25+ people who were playing it for the first time. Literally 100% of them loved it

[Jillian's toys]

The only reason to push this place is to atone for the first U.S. Open there, defend the wisdom of their choice--"See? We told you it was great."
Good greens or bad, horrific spectator routing or no, we've seen quite enough of Chambers Bay.

[Patches O'Houlihan]

CB is a course like Tobacco Road. It's definitely different and will provoke a reaction one way or the other. I think it's a delight to play.

Should they host another major? I guess that depends on how the course evolves and what other West Coast options are stepping forward. Not any time soon for sure, but something late 2030 something? Why not? I'd look forward to watching it if I'm still around.

[MJR]

Point I have made ad nauseum is why in the world do we have our national championship at a brand new course totally untested? We have several hundred courses around the country with great pedigrees (even more if we took care of the ball issue). Why not have a course we know is a classic track and will provide a real test instead of the Agitprop around these garbage new courses and how swell they are. Is CB Merion or Chicago Golf or Oakmont? Of course not. Great, then let them have some tour stop instead of the TPC Dumphole. That would be an improvement. Anything not at a TPC goat ranch would be an improvement. They do not need our National Championship.

Why the USGA wants to award these tracks is beyond me (although, my guess is it might be something similar to why FIFA and the USOC award their venues...$$$$$)

[Brandon]

The USGA has had their pockets stuffed with $$$$ from Fox for the next 7-10 years. They could care less about growing the game or the quality of their majors. And it is this reason why the US Open has now become the least favorite major.

[Greg]

No more US Opens at Chambers Bay. It may be great course to play, but its design, just like Erin Hills, doesn't lend itself to creating a great atmosphere. Spectators need to be closer than 100 yards to the fairways and green. I still remember the images from Chambers Bay in which it appears that play was occurring on an empty course. Complete buzz kill.

[PG]

Torrey Pines and Olympic Club both turned down potential '28 Ryder Cup. Shac hinted at Sawgrass, but I'd rather see Aronimink or Quail Hollow http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/golf/20160929_Why_hasn_t_Ryder_Cup_ever_been_played_here_.html http://www.morningread.com/features/a3c2010f-8fc5-448f-88fb-ee08efdb916a

[Ron Read]

Love the commentary. As the guy who led the national governing body into CB, the opportunity to defend cannot be resisted. (1) The PNW had never hosted the National Championship. I learned this and the enthusiasm for golf in the PNW in 1982 at the Sr Open at Portland GC. My personal "Lewis & Clark" golf expo led me to about 8 other sites before CB. 2. As I stood on CB sand rim with John Ladenburg & RTJones, Jr, my words were, "We build it day 1 to hold the US Open." Within 24 hrs, it was handed off to Davis at USGA. Fay, Davis et al visited soon thereafter. They agreed. (2) Fine fescue greens did not work well for '15 US Open. I recall no complaints about green quality at the '10 US Am. Their firmness was noted. They WILL get the greens to today's championship expectations. (3) If there's a more beautiful seaside setting in the history of Majors, I've not had the privilege. I concede Turnberry is also way up there. So's the Old Course for historical reasons. (4) As for spectators' experience, they, too, will get it right, but it will never be a Masters experience. (5) Players hated Hazeltine at the '71 Open. Since then, HGC has hosted another Open, PGA & Ryder Cup. Same with Spyglass Hill in '68 Crosby. Please make your next argument. (6) 1-2 were Spieth and Johnson. Case closed. Chambers Bay is a great examination of skill, courage, and golf intellect. Its an incredible settling, and one with unlimited financial upside for the US Open, PGA, and even at Ryder Cup in my opinion.

[BrianS]

@ Ron - appreciate the info. But how do you square the stated desire to host major championships with a completely spectator un friendly layout ? Thy should have taken the opposite approach - mounds for viewing, and so forth. That aspect alone should be a prime consideration. The closer the spectators get to the action, the more they are involved and the greater "buzz" from the event.

[AK47]

Ron, Hazeltine is also a cow pasture. It's a venue for majors and Ryder Cups only because it's a very big cow pasture and fits many, many corporate tents. CB was dusty, hot, inhospitable and featured the worst greens at a major in modern times. indeed, there was no grass on several by the last day. The views of Puget Sound were nice, though. Goats would have a hard time trekking that course to watch golf, forget elderly spectators. But, hey, the views of the sound ... nice

[Bob]

The week or two before the US Open, Seattle was hit with a record heatwave, temps in excess of 100. During this time, USGA was in charge of the care for the course. Due to not enough watering, a lot of the grass died out. My contention is that without the excessive heat, or enough water to keep greens healthy, we'd have had a different experience in the Open. That does not address the routing, spectator issues, but I do agree that Pacific Northwest deserves a major every few years.

[MJR]

Mr Read:

Fair enough. You have probably passed on 1000 golf experiences more important and monumental to the game than I will ever experience, so I am clearly outmatched. That being said:

No brainer on the PNW. Great area, especially in June. Great for ratings. Great people.

I am not following the Hazeltine comparison. Is the suggestion we should continually have an untested course that gives negative feedback, so they can spend millions to renovate it for the next time? Could they not go to a course that already is proven? Why do we take fewer chances on courses for lesser tournaments, but let it fly and take risks with our national championship?

There seems to be no thoughts on having a historic venue. Do people like seeing a big game at Wrigley or Fenway, or are people pumped to go to Safeco Field? Should not our national championship that has been played 117 times be at a course that maybe existed for a couple years before being awarded something? How about a nice Hooters Tour event to test it...

Yes, nice views of the sound, but people like the Old Course because of what happened on the course! One of the most iconic shots in golf is the 1 iron of Hogan at Merion. No one cares that the only views they have externally are buckthorn blocking out mainline homes.

We have over a century of golf history. I am not sure why our National Championship needs these times where the course is picked on a flyer because a few folks (albeit very golf savvy) like the view.

The winner was great, so was the runner-up. The Travelers and John Deere had big names win. Should I let the good folks in Hartford and the Quad Cities that their US Open is imminent?

Again, just my thoughts. They are worth the ink they are not printed on...

[munihack]

The fact that the people in authority had almost complete control to create CB with the notion of hosting a national championship and the resultant muck-up it all became says more about the organization and its incompetence than anything else. The architect was given a blank canvas, the logistical folks had all kinds of time to coordinate with the RR and agronomy was controlled for the purpose of identifying the best player.
The results were a giant cluster of dead end routing for spectators, no RR access, dust bowl spots all over the course and greens that made my muni seem like ANGC by comparison. The cherry on top was the final green where the 2 "best" players didn't even try to make eagle putts inside 15 feet because they were afraid of a 2 footer on the next putt and one of them still 3 putted to hand the trophy to the other. If this was a "success" I would hate to know what these idiots think failure is. And I didn't even mention FOX's broadcast run by interns.

[Ron Read]

1. Hazeltine comparison. Players reacted unfavorably at '71 US Open. Some hated it. HCC overcame ALL and has proven an excellent site for Majors. Chambers Bay can and will do same. It has GREAT "bones".
2. Same for spectator issues. They are very much aware, as is the architect RTJones, Jr. The spectator experience will be excellent, though it may not be Augusta Natl.

[PG]

Portland hosted '46 PGA and '47 Ryder Cup thanks to grocery magnate Robert Hudson, who also funded two Ryder Cups in Palm Springs in 1950s. Sahalee hosted '98 PGA and was supposed to do so in 2010. Instead, Senior Open featured Fred Couples and Langer. Bellerive, Harding Park, Hazeltine, and Southern Hills are only other PGA venues since. Oak Tree and Colorado Golf Club have also hosted Senior PGAs

[PG]

Those venues I mentioned are west of Mississippi River

[Convert]

Ron- I attended all 3 Opens at Pinehurst #2, the spectator experience got worse each time....much worse, How can you begin to say they could get it right at CB?

[PG]

Pinehurst has domed greens and "scrub through the green"

[Brad]

Mr Read.... I'll take Pebble Beach's view of the Pacific over the view of Puget Sound anyday
I know that being in the Pacific Northwest CB was probably destined for poa greens eventually, but even at its best I don't think it is a first rate surface that a major should command.
When is the USGA Greens Section going to suck it up and tell everyone what really happened to the greens at CB?

[Ron Read]

RE greens, there were very difficult, if not impossible issues, fine fescue in a poa climate among them. The Green Section has unlimited resources and the good people to apply them. Under the circumstances, everything that could be done, was done. I observed first hand many greens before Open week began, up until Championship Sunday. The issues were almost entirely late in the day when poa "bloomed". Several of the best in the world figured it out.
As an aside, there certainly are many "experts" on the agronomic issues. Not many of them were in the Press tent. That is not intended critically. I personally think much was overblown. If I were Dustin Johnson faced with a downhiller for the National Championship last on Sunday, I might not agree.
If a Major returns, spectator issues will be addressed. Guaranteed. Were I actively involved in '15, things would have been different.
As for my opinion re CB v Pebble Beach, I am a long time visitor there, and for 10 or 12 years, about 5 times a week. Its ocean views have few equals. Combine the beauty of CB's design...on the Bay with its activities...occasional train service...and in the backdrop of the Olympic Mtns, my vote remains with CB as the most stunning site for any Major. This is all just the opinion of one lucky guy.

[FC]

I couldn't believe my eyes reading that Mr. Read prefers CB over PB. Ron, I still have special memories of the '82 US Open at PB, and you are part of those memories as the Starter.

CB is different, and it is bad. Another major there would be a huge mistake. The Home Course (2010 US Amateur companion course) is a better course than CB, but that doesn't mean it should hold a US Open.

For the USGA, Bethpage was a win. CB and Erin are fails. Forget about them. You win some, you lose some. Move on to other great possibilities.

[FC]

My apologies to Ron Read for naming him as Starter for the 1982 US Open. The Starter on that occasion was David Fay. I believe Ron began those duties in 1986.

[Patches O'Houlihan]

Home Course better? It's fine to not like CB, but please.

[Brad]

Mr Reed, someone from the Greens section is blowing smoke up your you know what. The fescue got nuked just prior to the Open.

[Patches O'Houlihan]

Limited water. Record heat. Were they taking it right to the edge because someplace that wide had to play super F&F? The edge moved. JMHO.

[Ron Read]

Still love the chatter. They now bill US Open as golf's "Ultimate Test". Let the record note the winning score at Erin was the lowest in 9 wks on the Tour, and it was, I'm guessing, in the "easiest" third of the Tour's events in '17. BTW, Chambers winning score was, as I recall -5, truly proving a great test. I have no doubt there are several other traditional Open sites that please viewers more than CB. It provides a truly great exam, with a fantastic market, and incredible setting.

[mark]

Ron, the scores were not low at CB because it was to dry and could not be played properly Just listen to Geoff's pod cast with Geoff Ogilvy he will tell you that you were suppost to hit it on a certian side of the fair way to play the hole properly but the ball would bounce and end up in the opposite side rough.,

Hazeltine is no longer in the top 100 but has a good enough course and a really good infrastructure. Was at this years open and I felt underwhelmed when I compared it to the Ryder Cup. We now have to make a decisions, do we want a great course or do we want a good course with great infrastructure for the people and all the corporate tents.

[DeviledDetails]

SO, the US Amateur looked like they were playing in a bathtub the way balls rolled around and settled in same place, but the USGA learned from it.
The USOpen got away due to water and whatever.....BUT
the USGA learned from that.

Erin Hills and Chambers had one thing in common. Big new market with a forced mess of a course

Which means, millions more spent so we can get it right.....like the anchoring rule

[WEG]

I think the comments by Ron Read are very interesting, but there is one thing about all this that I think is really odd, which is that CB is a US Open course and not a PGA course. Coming to the Seattle area in June I would think might be problematic, because you'd generally have a somewhat high chance that wet Winter and Spring weather had made it impossible to get the course (any course) in optimal condition. But maybe CB drains so well - hilly, exposed, no trees - that this is not such a big issue as it might be at another course in this area.

On the other hand, suppose you really hate Chambers Bay. Look at where they've been holding the PGA. New Jersey, Oklahoma, Georgia, Kentucky. This year, North Carolina.

As much as you hate CB, would you really rather spend a week in August in one of those places, or in Tacoma, Washington? If you answered "one of those places" I think you need your bleeping head examined. At CB you have almost a guarantee of sunny, relatively mild (by the standards of those other places) and not so humid weather. Much lower chance - close to zero - of thunderstorms and rain.

Golf wasn't meant to be played in Oklahoma or Georgia or North Carolina in August, in my opinion. But I guess some people enjoy being really sticky and sweaty. Maybe they get used to it, like prisoners.

[PG]

Past US Opens were played in NJ, OK, GA, and NC. Would love to see more Midwest Opens and more LPGA in Northeast

[WEG]

According to usclimatedata.com, here are average high temps and average monthly rainfall for June and August:

Tacoma:June 71 and 1.6", August 77 and 0.8".

Tulsa: June 87 and 4.7", August 93 and 2.9".

Louisville: June 85 and 3.8", August 88 and 3.4".

Morris Plains (Baltusrol): June 80 and 4.4", August 83 and 4.4". Newark is similar.

Rochester: June 77 and 3.4"; August 79 and 3.5".

Actually this isn't so much an argument for holding the PGA at CB (or somewhere in the maritime West Coast region) as it is moving the PGA to May. Forget about optimizing the schedule, they should move it to May so they might have halfway decent golf weather.

My family spent a summer in South Orange when I was a kid, I can't imagine the attraction of going to watch a golf tournament there (Baltusrol) in person in August, when you can watch it on TV instead. Call me a wimp!

A great golf course with hot humid weather and a good chance of thunderstorms and/or heavy rain vs. a dump of course with Tacoma weather (and great views!), I'd say it's at least close.

[James]

I would take Chambers Bay any day over Erin Hills....

[FC]

May may be a mistake for the PGA Championship. It'll eliminate some courses. Valhalla still looks good for that date.

[MJ]

@FC

How was Bethpage a win? It was a rain-filled snoozer.

[PG]

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/golf/doug-ghim-wins-pacific-coast-amateur-at-chambers-bay/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=RSS_all