Playoff Props

What can you say, the guy is amazing. I've posted a preview of the playoff setup at GolfDigest.com, with news on where they'll be playing the 14th. Having only watched the telecast through the American Express free TV, I'm wondering how 14 came across.

 

Comments

[F. X.]

There was very little coverage of 14 aside from Mediate, Westwood and Woods, who played it left bunker, run it up the opening, and lay up, so we got to see all the strategies for making par. As I posted a few minutes ago on the prior piece, aside from Tiger's fireworks and Rocco's good cheer, it was another boring march to par.

[Tuna]

Well, according to the preview it looks like the hole will be front left on 14.

That is the natural place to put it if you are going to set up 14 as driveable. It really brings 2 (and 5 or 6) more into the equation.I'm surprised it wasn't there today.

I really like that front center pin position on 13. I wish the USGA would set up a lot of centered positions tomorrow instead of a right-left-right-left mentality.

Look for lower scores tomorrow with only two players out there, no spike marks, smoother greens, etc.

[Greg]

I like short risk-reward par 4's (the 10th at Riviera, the 9th at Cypress Point, the 13th at Lahinch, the 7th at Engineers, etc.). And I would probably really like the 14th, too, if was redesigned into a short par-4. But on television it looked like a bunch of tour players using the "red" tees.

BTW, did anyone hit his tee shot into the canyon?

[Truthsayer]

Am I the only one who is disgusted with the unfairness of this U.S. Open? Tiger drove the ball atrociously, yet was rewarded repeatedly with second-shot lies that were much better than he deserved because his tees shots were WAY RIGHT and came to rest in the flattened grass of the gallery, instead of the gnarly penal rough. Tiger's ball should have been in 5-7 inch rough, which would have prevented him from firing 200-plus-yard second shots that set up the birdies and eagles for which this Open will be remembered. I credit Tiger for making the most of his opportunities, but I am disappointed that the course was set up in such a way that he could accomplish many of his heroics. If Tiger goes on to win, does anyone believe that the USGA will have identified the best golfer this week? (And yes, I know that Tiger is the best golfer week in and week out, blah, blah, blah, but he doesn't deserve to win this week, IMHO, despite having played courageously and having putted amazingly.)

[Seitz]

If he keeps driving it into the areas trampled down by the galleries, how exactly do you propose to fix that, other than either getting rid of galleries, or making it all GUR?

[Tuna]

Just this Open, Truthsayer?

That kind of stuff happens every tournament.

Very, very bad can quite often turn out better than regular, old bad.

I even remember one British Open champ hitting a drive into a parking lot and coming out smelling like a rose.

[Truthsayer]

Seitz: Make Tiger (and anyone else who hits it into the gallery) hit his second shot from a drop area in the deep rough, which is where his ball should have come to rest.

Tuna: Maybe I have a bad memory, but I watch a lot of golf, and I don't think it happens in very many tournaments, much less very many U.S. Opens. Did Tiger drive the ball that wildly at Pebble or at Bethpage? Did Goosen drive the ball that wildly en route to his two Open titles? How about Furyk or Campbell? I know Cabrera didn't drive the ball like that because I remember being amazed by both his accuracy and length last year. Moreover, I remember Mickelson driving the ball abysmally at Winged Foot, but, needless to say, it eventually caught up with him. I don't think that it's going to catch up with Woods; I think he is going to win tomorrow, which will be a shame because Mediate has played beautifully and should have already won. By the way, who is the British Open champ to which you referred?

[Truthsayer]

Tuna: By the way, my golf consciousness began in 2000, so please excuse my ingorance of Opens that occurred in the last millenium. :)

[Hawkeye]

Truthsayer, that's Seve's first British Open victory at Lytham in 1979. He claims that he intentionally let go of the drive on the 16th to the right so that he could have a pitch into the wind from a tight lie on BBC's parking lot. That's rubbish, of course, it was nothing but a big banana slice, but it led to a birdie and an eventual one-stroke victory.

[Al]

Based on the TV coverage, there were only 3 players on the course on Sunday
Woods, Rocco, Westwood. There were a couple of other players who were various the greens hitting putts, Els, Karlson, Trahan, but I have no idea how they got there because there was no coverage.
I didn't even know that JA Jimenez finished in the top 10, his coverage was so invisible.

Guess the Networks finally got what they wanted for todays round, 4 hours of Tigervision. I will be rooting for Rocco, he seems like too good a guy.

BTW, what did you guys make of Tiger's club pounding on 18 after his crappy shot out of the bunker. Surprisingly the announcers didn't even mention it.

[Scottt]

Truthsayer: how can you so definitively make an assessment of what is right for a US Open when you've admittedly watched 7 of 168? and three of those (04, 06 and 07) were setups that got universally panned?

[jason]

It did catch up with Tiger, truthsayer. He made bogeys and doubles. The truth is, anyone but Tiger, driving in the places he did, wouldn't have even made the cut, let alone tied for a playoff. Tiger definitely was, overall, one of the two best players this week.

[figjam]

Didn't help him on the first hole Sunday.

[jneu]

Here's a question, and I'd love to hear Geoff's thoughts on it: If you're Mike Davis, how do you set up the course fairly when you know who the two playoff participants will be? Move the tees back, and it would seem to favor Tiger. (Maybe not this week's Tiger.) Set the tee on 14 where it was yesterday, and you know it's a distance one of the two players doesn't like. Varying the holes works beautifully over four days; it poses a dilemma for today.

Perhaps he should decide on the playoff setup before the start of the event, and seal it in an envelope.

[C. Freeman]

I agree with Jason. Say all you want about hitting into trampled grass, but the number of pros who make the best of even that situation are few and far between. How many balls has a pro hit that should have gone OB or into really gnarly rough stay out because of the gallery?

[Jason B]

jneu-

Man, that's a great point. My wife and I were debating that last night after the 18th hole- how do you ensure the setup is fair, knowing there are only two guys in the round (and two widely divergent styles of golf).

[doug]

Before the tournament, the committee, led by Davis, comes up with - 90 - hole locations, in the event of a Monday playoff.
So the much of the setup was determined before the contestants were known. - it also sounds like that those locations are determining which set of tees Davis is going to use.

[Eric]

They (NBC, USGA) made such a big deal about primetime golf all week, why are they conducting the play-off in a time slot that is in the middle of the day for the entire country? It took Tiger and Westwood about 4h30min teeing off at 4:30ET yesterday and there was still plenty of sunlight even if Tiger/Rocco can't decide it after 18.

[Chuck]

It was reported that most of the Monday playoff tee positions would be the same as on Sunday; there is no intent to favor Rocco, although the shorter overall length might favor him marginally.

[Tim]

Re: Jiminez - he birdied 18 and finished 6th. If you have access to a computer when you watch, track the comments on the BBC Live Text site; it's a real laugh with viewer emails and ongoing commentary on many of the players (with a slight UK bias, but to be expected)...

[dsl]

I made a comment on the final round posting about this too - it really couldn't be more difficult to find out where the playoff coverage will be broadcast. NBC Sports website says ESPN at 12 EST and NBC at 2 EST. The program guide on my digital cable/ dvr box has not been updated with anything related to this coverage. Plus, I'm in Canada so I'll need a Little Orphan Annie secret decoder pin to figure out how the US coverage will be broadcast here. I'll end up having to record a bunch of different shows on different channels in order to try and capture the golf. Just a minor complaint, but how many other people are struggling with this?

[Truthsayer]

Scottt: I'm under the impression that the U.S.G.A. strives to make the U.S. Open the fairest test in golf in an attempt to identify the best golfer that week. They intend to reward good shots, and punish bad ones, which accounts for their narrowing of the fairways and the graduated rough that thickens and becomes more gnarly the farther one moves from the fairway. So, when a golfer, like Tiger, unintentionally drives the ball out of the intended field of play, I think that he should be punished for having done so, as that would be consistent with the U.S.G.A.'s intent. Tiger appears to have been rewarded on numerous occasions for his wild drives with relatively good lies on trampled grass and proceeded to birdie or eagle those holes, which would have been impossible had he been punished for his waywardness. I think that it is unfair and contrary to the intent of the U.S.G.A.'s course set up, which was the point of my post. I don't think that I need to watch (or read about) more Opens to come to that conclusion or to support it, as I have.

Jason: I have already acknowledged that Tiger deserves credit for making the most of his opportunities. He played courageously and putted amazingly. But, contrast his performance with Ogilvy's. I remember Johnny Miller saying that Ogilvy missed half of the fairways and GIR's, but still managed to finish two-over-par for the tournament. Moreover, Ogilvy wasn't anywhere near as wild as Tiger off the tee, when he missed the fairway he was usually in the shit and had to recover from it, which he did, admirably. If Ogilvy had won the Open, I wouldn't be complaining because he was punished (with bad lies and more difficult second shots) for his poor drives and managed to overcome the adversity that he brought on himself. Tiger's play, by contrast, made a mockery of the course setup, a fact which is lost on most fans because they have been awed by Tiger's gutsy performance and flair for the dramatic.

[Scottt]

Truthsayer - unless you are going to suggest we get rid of galleries, there will be trampled areas on the walkways in the rough. It happens at every tournament.

Tiger wasn't the only one to benefit from that this week. He was, as far as I know, the only one to hit such remarkable shots from it.

Are you suggesting he doesn't deserve to be in the playoff?

[Adam Clayman]

Throwing clubs should be a breach of the etiquette rule. 2 strokes seems appropriate.
Tiger gets a free pass because even the mentally toughest man on the planet has to vent.

[Tighthead]

Two things: Al - of course they aren't going to mention Tiger throwing a club. If it was Sabattini or Perez, sure.

Second, the ice plant being a lateral hazard seemed like b.s. to me. OB, or in play and you are free to take an unplayable.

[dsl]

How about that penalty on Snedeker for dropping his marker on the ball? I kept thinking that the casual fans must have been completely turned off when they got into the specifics on that one - how freakin' complicated IS this game? I'm thinking maybe that rule gets changed in the near future.

[jneu]

Strokes for a breach of etiquette? Good idea, Adam. Let's give more power to the officials to decide things. Maybe they can wear striped shirts and throw a flag. Let's get Rocco for his "shit" on the 18 tee, too. Sergio's outfits are worth two strokes a hole (to a maximum of four strokes, like the penalty for 15 clubs). J.B. Holmes gets two for snubbing Jack Nicklaus.

I'm liking the idea more and more by the minute.

[Al]

jneu
Im liking the idea as well.
But instead of striped shirts and flags, I think they should look like Soccer Officials with the Polo Shirts with pockets and short shorts. Once a violation has been spotted, the official can run up to the offender with a yellow card and shove it in his face for all to see.

And as with the "official' time in a soccer match, only the official will know how many strokes will be added on. Once the player finishes the round they can be takked on in the scoring tent. Under full TV coverage. The tension would be awesome.

[Tuna]

Ogilvy should definitely have been assessed a 1 shot penalty yesterday on the 1st tee for poor clothing practices.

I just don't like how he lets those shirts hang out instead of tucking them into his pants.

Makes him look like a bowler.

:)

[Tuna]

Truthsayer, if you come up with any ideas on how to prevent lousy shots from possibly being rewarded with good lies from trampled grass, let us know.

I certainly agree with your premise, but short of gallery elimination, I just don't know what can be done.

[Jackson]

Greg, regarding short par-4s, have you played the 16th (Cardinals Back) at Prestwick Old?

[George W.]

Here's hoping Tiger loads up on meds, reducing hit 'n wince.

[Taylor]

Monday morning and they've just teed off. Fantastic to see Rocco dressed in red and black. Game on!!

[Adam Clayman]

Etiquette was placed in the rules for what reason?

Damaging the turf is also a great perception to perpetuate.

[dbh]

For any other poor soul with no streaming access, there's a live blog of the match here:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/postedsports/archive/2008/06/16/golf-u-s-open-playoff-live-blog.aspx

[jneu]

Adam, etiquette's in the Rules, sure. Here's the provision on penalties:

"If a player consistently disregards these guidelines during a round or over a period of time to the detriment of others, it is recommended that the Committee consider taking appropriate disciplinary action against the offending player. Such action may, for example, include prohibiting play for a limited time on the course or in a certain number of competitions. This is considered to be justifiable in terms of protecting the interests of the majority of golfers who wish to play in accordance with these guidelines.

"In the case of a serious breach of etiquette, the Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7."

Looks like it's DQ or nuthin'.

[Traveler]

With Tiger not wincing, I fear Rocco has no chance. Maybe he didn't anyway, but as someone who is definitely pulling for Rocco, I had convinced myself he might be able to beat Tiger on account of the knee issue. Doesn't look that way so far.

[jneu]

Is the USGA the new Augusta? Throughout the weekend, the announcers have been referring to "The San Diego Open" in talking about Tiger's history at Torrey. Did the organization sponsored by Lexus give orders that the word "Buick" not be uttered?

[jneu]

Beautiful. What is probably the single most important shot of the playoff -- Rocco's birdie putt on 9, with Tiger lying 4 -- and we miss it in the switchoff from ESPN to NBC. Is it so hard to make sure there's no gap????????????

[Scottt]

Tune - that wasn't Ogilvy's shirt hanging out, it was a vest that was the same colour as his shirt.